Best 6 speed for a 1962?

[WH654 23]

I would like to eventually put a six speed in my 1962 round hood.

 

I have a 1969 raider 12 with a 6 speed that I thought about swapping the transmission but the raider 12 is a nice tractor and there’s nothing wrong with it so, I don’t want to rob Peter to pay Paul. 

 

I live in Pennsylvania and there are often old Wheel Horses for sale with six speeds in them.

 

Are there any years or models of that would have the best six speed swap from my 1962?

 

I remember reading about two different versions of six speeds, but I can’t find the discussion even though I’ve searched and searched. 

[ebinmaine 67,481]

1 hour ago, WH654 said:

two different versions of six speeds,

@stevasaurus or @Pullstart may have a comment here. @Racinbobmaybe? 

 

The only "versions" I know of are the aluminum versus steel differential end plates. 

 

Otherwise the exterior dimensions should be the same as a 3 speed.  

 

 

[953 nut 55,220]

If you can find a Six Speed transaxle the clutch/brake hook-up is a piece of cake, The 5060 transaxle was used in 1967 & 68 and the 5071 was used in 1969 Raider 10 & 12. They both have the limited slip differential but the differential side plates on the 5060 are forged aluminum and the ones in the 5071 are steel.  Section two of the transaxle service manual shows the 5060 and 5071.

 

[ri702bill 8,319]

Doing a 6-speed swap is easier than doing an 8 speed, as I did on my 854.The 6 speed has the same size input shaft as the 4 speed. the brake band mounts the same too. Both are different on the 8 speed. Drive belt length - 70" - will be the same with a 6 speed. You still need to hole saw a 1" hole thru the toolbox bottom for the hi-lo lever. IF there is a dipstick tube (probably not) it would need to be shortened, as well as the dipstick. Had to do that on the 8 speed.  You MAY want to reuse your 4-speed shifter instead of the 6 speed one.  Ask @Handy Don about his 854 6 speed. I have driven it, nice unit.

While the 6 speed is out - maybe time for the 4 seals & a new shift boot??

[WH654 23]

Hmm.. now I’m a little confused.

 

I thought the only choices were:

 

Three forward gears and reverse (aka 3 speed).

 

Three forward gears and reverse, plus low and high range (aka 6 speed).

 

What gear setup is an 8 speed?

 

My raider 12 has 3 forward gears and reverse, plus high and low range is that called a six speed or eight speed?

 

I like learning new stuff this is fun.😁

[WH654 23]

1 hour ago, 953 nut said:

If you can find a Six Speed transaxle the clutch/brake hook-up is a piece of cake, The 5060 transaxle was used in 1967 & 68 and the 5071 was used in 1969 Raider 10 & 12. They both have the limited slip differential but the differential side plates on the 5060 are forged aluminum and the ones in the 5071 are steel.  Section two of the transaxle service manual shows the 5060 and 5071.

thanks great info!

 

[WH654 23]

1 hour ago, 953 nut said:

If you can find a Six Speed transaxle the clutch/brake hook-up is a piece of cake, The 5060 transaxle was used in 1967 & 68 and the 5071 was used in 1969 Raider 10 & 12. They both have the limited slip differential but the differential side plates on the 5060 are forged aluminum and the ones in the 5071 are steel.  Section two of the transaxle service manual shows the 5060 and 5071.

 

 that is great info I didn’t realize that my raider 12 had a limited lift differential

[953 nut 55,220]

When Wheel Horse came out with the "SIX SPEED" it seems that someone else had already started using that name so it became known as an eight speed. The change in the brake band took place at the same time.

[Handy Don 12,217]

12 minutes ago, WH654 said:

I didn’t realize that my raider 12 had a limited slip differential

Not to take the shine off, but “limited” is the operative word!  

It is categorically NOT “posi-traction.” The WH design uses friction within the differential to try to keep both rear wheels turning in the same direction. It is most effective when traveling in a straight line (e.g. for plowing soil or snow). My sense is that the WH engineers did this as a less costly way to claim some of the function of the pricier JD units that had actual locking diffs in the same era. Also, metal-to-metal friction always equals wear so, in my mind, these diffs can wear more quickly than the 8-pinion diffs depending, of course, on how they are used and maintained.

One external sign of a 6-speed is the extension coupler on the port for filling and checking transaxle oil level at the rear lower left. The extension permits keeping a higher gear oil level in the transaxle--absolutely essential given the extra internal friction to avoid excess wear.

[WH654 23]

12 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Not to take the shine off, but “limited” is the operative word!  

It is categorically NOT “posi-traction.” The WH design uses friction within the differential to try to keep both rear wheels turning in the same direction. It is most effective when traveling in a straight line (e.g. for plowing soil or snow). My sense is that the WH engineers did this as a less costly way to claim some of the function of the pricier JD units that had actual locking diffs in the same era. Also, metal-to-metal friction always equals wear so, in my mind, these diffs can wear more quickly than the 8-pinion diffs depending, of course, on how they are used and maintained.

One external sign of a 6-speed is the extension coupler on the port for filling and checking transaxle oil level at the rear lower left. The extension permits keeping a higher gear oil level in the transaxle--absolutely essential given the extra internal friction to avoid excess wear.

There is a very steep hill that I’ve mowed my yard with using my raider 12 and I was surprised that I never got any wheel spin. So it does seem to be working, but the next time I have it out, I will test it.

[Handy Don 12,217]

Just now, WH654 said:

There is a very steep hill that I’ve mowed my yard with using my raider 12 and I was surprised that I never got any wheel spin. So it does seem to be working, but the next time I have it out, I will test it.

As @ri702bill noted, I swapped a 6-speed into my 854 and added a front attach-a-matic to which I can load a 40 lb weight. While doing some landscaping, I tried pulling a cart straight up steep-ish hill that had a loose soil surface and had both wheels spin. Hmmm--good, but not what I needed! 

Put on the chains and it climbed like a goat. Descent was with empty cart and shallower incline.

Moral? Pay very close attention to load, balance, traction, and braking. WH brakes are adequate for light stopping but cannot manage heavy loads or steep hills.

[Pullstart 62,851]

I put an 8 speed in my 502, out of necessity.  The brake band rod needed some modification, the parking brake was never hooked up, and I had to get a different drive pulley for the shaft size difference.  At the end of the day, the open differential has never slowed me down vs. a limited slip 6 speed.  I do however have plenty of added weight!

 

 

[WH654 23]

4 hours ago, 953 nut said:

If you can find a Six Speed transaxle the clutch/brake hook-up is a piece of cake, The 5060 transaxle was used in 1967 & 68 and the 5071 was used in 1969 Raider 10 & 12. They both have the limited slip differential but the differential side plates on the 5060 are forged aluminum and the ones in the 5071 are steel.  Section two of the transaxle service manual shows the 5060 and 5071.

 

I found a 1970 raider 10. would it have the 5071 transmission?

[stevasaurus 22,736]

Here is what you might be confused about.  There are actually 3 different Wheel Horse Limited Slip transmissions.  1. the #5060 is the one with aluminum end plates in the differential.  2. the #5071 is the one with cast iron end plates in the differential.  Both of these are 6 speeds..ie...3 forward 1 reverse and hi/low range.  The difference between 6 and 8 speed transmissions is the brake shaft location.  The 6 speeds have the brake drum on the mushroom gear.  The 8 speeds also have 3 forward 1 reverse and hi/low range, but the brake drum is mounted on the cluster gear shaft. (the hole closer to the front of the trans).  That is the difference.  The #5073 is also a limited slip transmission but is considered an 8 speed because the brake drum is on the cluster gear shaft.  You want the #5060 or #5071 because of where the brake drum is mounted.  It means less fabrication concerning the linkage because the brake drum is mounted in the same place as your round hood.

[stevasaurus 22,736]

I'm showing 2 1970 Raider 10s.  One with the 6 speed LS and one with the 8 speed LS.  It will depend where the brake drum is.  If ii is in the hole closer to the axle housing, that is the one you want.  If it is in the hole closer to the front of the trans, you can use it, but you will have some fabrication of the linkage.

1-6041 may be the one you want to check.  Something is not right with the list I have...a typo I think.

[WH654 23]

59 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

I'm showing 2 1970 Raider 10s.  One with the 6 speed LS and one with the 8 speed LS.  It will depend where the brake drum is.  If ii is in the hole closer to the axle housing, that is the one you want.  If it is in the hole closer to the front of the trans, you can use it, but you will have some fabrication of the linkage.

1-6041 may be the one you want to check.  Something is not right with the list I have...a typo I think.

It says six speed on the hood.

[stevasaurus 22,736]

There ya go !!  If original, that is what you want.  I would ask where the brake drum is mounted, or get a picture.  If you look at the trans in your round hood, and how close the drum is to the axle...that is the same as the 6 speed.

  Also ask if it has the 1" extension on the filler plug on the left side.  That extension is not on every 6 speed, but if it is there, I would be confident that it is a 6 speed.

[Handy Don 12,217]

4 minutes ago, WH654 said:

It says six speed on the hood.

Promising but not necessarily definitive 😀. A lot of years since new and hood have been known to migrate. 
a good picture of the brake drum position is what you need. 
My belt guard says “854” but it has parts from a ‘62 and a ‘71 and an ‘82!

[stevasaurus 22,736]

Here is the deal...I am going out on a limb here.  If you have a hi/low shifter and the brake drum is mounted on the shaft closest to the axle housing (mushroom gear), then you have a 6 speed LS trans.  It has to be either the #5060 or the #5071.

[WH654 23]

15 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

There ya go !!  If original, that is what you want.  I would ask where the brake drum is mounted, or get a picture.  If you look at the trans in your round hood, and how close the drum is to the axle...that is the same as the 6 speed.

  Also ask if it has the 1" extension on the filler plug on the left side.  That extension is not on every 6 speed, but if it is there, I would be confident that it is a 6 speed.

That’s true a 50-year-old tractor could possibly not have the original hood on it.

 

I asked for a photo of the model number and the brake on the side of the axle.

3 hours ago, Pullstart said:

I put an 8 speed in my 502, out of necessity.  The brake band rod needed some modification, the parking brake was never hooked up, and I had to get a different drive pulley for the shaft size difference.  At the end of the day, the open differential has never slowed me down vs. a limited slip 6 speed.  I do however have plenty of added weight!

 

 

Great looking round hood. I really like the black wheels.

[ebinmaine 67,481]

6 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

Here is the deal...I am going out on a limb here.  If you have a hi/low shifter and the brake drum is mounted on the shaft closest to the axle housing (mushroom gear), then you have a 6 speed LS trans.  It has to be either the #5060 or the #5071.

 

I'll set on the same limb.  

 

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,736]

Let's not mention that Service Bullitins exist to change out 10 pinion differentials to 8 pinions.  In other words, you do not know what you have until you open up the trans case.  

 

[ebinmaine 67,481]

1 minute ago, stevasaurus said:

you do not know what you have until you open up the trans case

 

Been done the other way too.  

 

[ri702bill 8,319]

7 hours ago, WH654 said:

What gear setup is an 8 speed?

 

My raider 12 has 3 forward gears and reverse, plus high and low range is that called a six speed or eight speed?

Both are for all purposes geared the same. They are a 4 speed with a direct 1:1 HI range and a 4:1 reduction in LO. There ARE differences as i noted on input shaft diameter and the brake band mounting tabs are "backwards" on the later 8 speed. The brake pulls from over the top, not the bottom as the 4 and 6 speeds do. Six speeds only come with 1" diameter axles - so I am told. The 8 speed from the C series has 1-1/8" axles; the 300 series have 1 inch axles.

The track width - hub flange to hub flange -should be close to the same for both a 4 speed and a 6. The 8 speed is definitely wider (a good thing).

Edited October 16 by ri702bill

[ebinmaine 67,481]

2 hours ago, ri702bill said:

 

 Six speeds only come with 1" diameter axles - so I am told.

 

We have 3 or 4 six speeds with 1 1/8 axles. 

 

2 hours ago, ri702bill said:

 

The track width - hub flange to hub flange -should be close to the same for both a 4 speed and a 6. The 8 speed is definitely wider (a good thing).

 

6 speeds are around the same width as an 8 as well. 

There's definitely a space between the hub and transmission case.  

 

I can't verify if they're identical.... but definitely a good 2 to 3 inches wider than a 3 speed.