Pump shaft seal leak

[Tracy Gruetzmacher 3]

I recently purchased a 1980 C145H from a retired WH dealer. Nice clean tractor he put under a tarp 40 years ago. The seal on the pump housing shaft was leaking a bunch. Looked like a simple fix. I finally got the 40 year old seal out, replaced it with a new seal from Red Square. Did not fix problem, still leaks a bunch. The old seal face was flush with the pump housing so I installed new seal the same way. What did I do wrong?

 

[WHX?? 48,696]

Didn't nick or cut it it on the splines did ya? 

We like to see tape covering those to prevent it. 

[Tracy Gruetzmacher 3]

Ya know I did not think of that! Gonna have to get another seal ordered and give that a try. I thought maybe I needed to tap seal in a .06" to get seal past the splines. What kind of tape do u recommend? And thanks a bunch for your time.

[daveoman1966 3,745]

Use a single wrap of 2" wide duct tape...it is smooth and easy to remove without leaving any 'pieces' of it behind.  Gently tap the seal in place using a collar that just fits over the pump shaft and a little bigger dia than the seal. Be sure to thoroughly clear out any burrs in the alum housing or the seal may not 'seal'. 

  

[ri702bill 8,236]

With the seal removed, inspect the shaft area where the seal rides..... most likely worn, if so,  the shaft needs to be sleeved or replace.

Sleeve as in SpeedySleeve or SealSaver- special .003 thick stainless tube. Often used to repair worn car harmonic balancers with wear grooves.....

[peter lena 8,562]

@ri702bill  reflective of past experience !  replacement / change  demands detailing , good suggestion , pete  

[Tracy Gruetzmacher 3]

So if I do the speedy sleeve thing does the shaft have to be removed from pump housing?

[ri702bill 8,236]

Well... depends on a couple of things. You need to fing the Correct one for the diameter of the shaft - happy hunting,

They have an inward turned radius to "drive" it in place - that needs to clear the splines...

[daveoman1966 3,745]

The OEM seal is # 7877.  Wheelhorse Parts-n-More ought to have it.   

[Tracy Gruetzmacher 3]

The 7877 is what I installed. Does any body know a cross over number such as NAPA or similar that I could source locally? At the rate oil was seeping out the shaft is probably worn. The seal does not support the shaft the seal just seals. So how or why does the shaft get worn at the seal?

[Wild Bill 633 845]

11 hours ago, Tracy Gruetzmacher said:

Does any body know a cross over number such as NAPA or similar that I could source locally?

Provide the shaft OD, housing bore/seal OD and seal width and we can cross reference.

[lynnmor 7,294]

11 hours ago, Tracy Gruetzmacher said:

So how or why does the shaft get worn at the seal?

Dust and dirt gets in there where the seal meets the shaft and wears down the shaft over time.

[pfrederi 17,623]

CR 7475  You can also use 7474  I like the double lip better

 

I put a speedie sleeve in one  Was a bit of an issue getting the ring torn off after insertion.  Suggest slightly breaking the ring to start

 

 

[Tracy Gruetzmacher 3]

Thanks for all the help. I am leaning towards a new shaft. I live in NE Iowa. Does any body know of a repair shop in my area? Or other shops?

[Tracy Gruetzmacher 3]

To clarify, I meant to install the shaft.

[Tracy Gruetzmacher 3]

I just tried to order shaft from red square online shopping and it is not available. So where do I go now?

[Wild Bill 633 845]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285903037643?_nkw=Wheel+Horse+108368&itmmeta=01J6EZJ0DA3CY5HQ4WSK54THRK&hash=item42912624cb:g:7fYAAOSwlmNmZ3-h&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKmKkH2GRggTCBw%2BxFNsscVqC31IqsjxlWja8Sn%2FUQuUArDH8vu81pL6udrLNpvyNSIypPLmC2VMG9HoJ5jAB3Bs%2B4sRtgT1kJd7hessHxq3lTTRlvQZjZGJy07dyDgpD2Ja28M0gxFrYUUDvAbn%2Fgb456X0YlxYt%2BqZr2H35MPcr6EAaMcaWGXOPQxFKlCdnxykhc%2BAsUp4O24yETN2aAMfQDoeBQ9dhC6pyJVOvKC86Yv044r3hSDz9CWbWd%2FhZ9JXcUAThskRSS7p2lRO0wByRq7H1c3wZpcwKFGH0c9sSA%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR-SGyN-zZA

 

Or try Nova Hydraulics in Indianapolis, 317-322-0242.

Edited August 29 by Wild Bill 633

[Tracy Gruetzmacher 3]

No shafts at nova.Nova. I am gonna try something but want feedback from you mechanics before I do it. The bore depth in the pump housing is deeper than the thickness of the seal. So I will pull the seal out that I may have nicked on a spline, and measure the depth of the bore and the distance to the snap ring. The plan is to duct tape shaft, and engage seal deeper in the housing bore to move away from the worn surface on the shaft. If I don't think there is enough bore depth to move the seal I might install another seal backwards and super glue the 2 faces together, then tap the pair in deeper. I also have a little space between the face of the housing and the end of the spline to work with. What do you mechanics think?

[pfrederi 17,623]

If you do not want to do the speedie sleeve then I would just use the double lip seal try to seat it so it isn't in line with the wear groove on the shaft..  (I use electrical tape to cover the splines thinner than duct tape.) You could try doubling the seals I do not recall if there is enough room.. No need to glue anything.  If is seeps a bit ain't the worst thing in the world.  There a 5 qts of fluid.. a couple ounces leaking out every few months isn't going to cause  problems..

[Tracy Gruetzmacher 3]

I will check out the double lip, thanks and happy holiday!

[Tracy Gruetzmacher 3]

I looked both numbers up, can't verify which is the double lip?

[lynnmor 7,294]

See if thinner seals are available, perhaps you can install two of them.  The outer seal will slow the dirt problem protecting the inner one.  Since the outer seal has no direct source of lubrication, pack it with grease before installing.

[pfrederi 17,623]

8 hours ago, Tracy Gruetzmacher said:

I looked both numbers up, can't verify which is the double lip?

CR7475

[Tracy Gruetzmacher 3]

The reason I was gonna super glue the seals back to back was in case the first seal in does not have enough bore engagement.

[Tracy Gruetzmacher 3]

I am having trouble finding a double lip seal so started researching speeding sleeves. Removing the insertion ring u stated was a challenge. Do I have to remove the insertion ring if it goes on first? It will be next to impossible to remove in the small housing bore. What is it gonna hurt if I leave it?on butted up next to the snap ring.