New purchase

[smitty316 24]

Hi all, It's been a while since I've been on here, but I recently picked up a 416-8. It's rough and the more I look, the more I see how much it was monkeyed with. I've attached two pictures to give you an idea. The first shows how the engine is mounted. Only two bolts hold it to the frame. I'm assuming that this isn't how this came from the factory? The second picture shows how the choke cable is hooked up to the carburetor. It closes the choke when it's out and open when it's pushed in. At this point it only runs on full choke. It sounded good when the guy started it, but I didn't notice this until I got home. I guess this isn't a stock carb? It's dripping gas so I suspect that the needle valve is bad.

Lastly, where can I find the model number? I've looked all over, but can't find it.

Thanks, Smitty

[ebinmaine 67,188]

Welcome back!

 

 

6 minutes ago, smitty316 said:

The first shows how the engine is mounted. Only two bolts hold it to the frame. I'm assuming that this isn't how this came from the factory?

 

This is correct. 

The side that looks like it doesn't have any bolts is actually bolted from the bottom. Through the frame up into the engine.

 

 

7 minutes ago, smitty316 said:

The second picture shows how the choke cable is hooked up to the carburetor. It closes the choke when it's out and open when it's pushed in. At this point it only runs on full choke

 

When a 416 has a single cylinder Kohler it's likely built around  1985, 6, 7.  

 

That's a transition period for pulling/pushing the choke from two different directions.

It would appear that someone has installed an aftermarket carburetor which is incorrect.

You can try to rebuild that aftermarket carburetor and live with the choke knob or try to procure the correct carb. I personally will no longer run aftermarket carburetors on Big Blocks having seen several that were bad. Other folks on this site have had better luck.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,026]

1985-86 the data decal was on the rear fender pan under the front of the seat.

1987-88 the data decal was on the rear fender pan under the left side of the seat.

Left and right always from the operators position.

 

1985 model 31-16K801

1986 model 31-16K802

1987 model 31-16K803

1988 model 31-16K804

[smitty316 24]

Thank you guys. Here's another question for down the line. One of the rear axle seals is leaking. I know that some of these can be replaced by removing the hub and others require taking the axle housing apart. Do you know what it'll take to replace it on this model? Thanks again

 

[ebinmaine 67,188]

9 minutes ago, smitty316 said:

Thank you guys. Here's another question for down the line. One of the rear axle seals is leaking. I know that some of these can be replaced by removing the hub and others require taking the axle housing apart. Do you know what it'll take to replace it on this model? Thanks again

 

 

 

8 speeds have 4 seals. 

2 axle. 

1 input. 

1 brake. 

 

All 4 can be changed from the outside. 

 

What to watch for is that often a leaking seal is a symptom...  not the cause. 

A loose wheel bearing can make a seal go bad. 

 

 

[smitty316 24]

Thanks again, I'm sure I'll be back with more questions

[ebinmaine 67,188]

Just now, smitty316 said:

Thanks again, I'm sure I'll be back with more questions

Keep em coming.  

[Keaton 429]

17 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

 

 

17 hours ago, smitty316 said:

The first shows how the engine is mounted. Only two bolts hold it to the frame. I'm assuming that this isn't how this came from the factory?

 

This is correct. 

The side that looks like it doesn't have any bolts is actually bolted from the bottom. Through the frame up into the engine.

 

that's a big relief, i thought there was something wrong with mine with only 2 bolts

[ebinmaine 67,188]

5 minutes ago, Keaton said:

that's a big relief, i thought there was something wrong with mine with only 2 bolts

 

 

No no. You're good. Wheelhorse started using big block Kohler engines way back in the mid-60s. The engine blocks are wider than the frame. The drive pulley of course has to line up with the transmission so it's offset to one side a little.

 

 

[smitty316 24]

I took the carb off and cleaned all the jets, filed the points and made sure they're set to .020" and I got it started. It took a while until I figured out that it doesn't get any spark until I let off the key. As long as it's cranking there's no spark at the plug. Soon as I let off with the key it gets spark and starts. I attached a picture of what it looks like behind the ignition switch (definitely been monkeyed with). Does this symptom sound familiar or any suggestions on figuring this out. Otherwise I guess I need to start with a wiring diagram.

Thanks, Smitty

[pfrederi 17,635]

Switch could be bad...also someone may have connected the coil wire to the ACC terminal or R terminal of the switch...instead of the I terminal

Edited July 31 by pfrederi

[smitty316 24]

Thanks, I'll check that out.

[ebinmaine 67,188]

9 minutes ago, smitty316 said:

Thanks, I'll check that out.

 

See if you can identify ALL the terminals on the back of the switch by letter.

 

We found quite a few tractors that had the wrong ignition switch in them.

 

[peter lena 8,576]

@smitty316 https://www.tacomapropeller.com/product/boat-shaft-packing-extracting-tool/   like this for seal removal , punch in a tiny hole , side of seal , screw in puller , pull it right out , only reference on the type of puller , H/ F  tools has them , like a bearing splitter type of  hub puller , draws directly from axel / hub area , thats the hub strong / solid pull point , do not pull from the outer hub areas , hubs usually crack , another thing , back out the hub allen screw or square head bolt , get some KROIL IN THERE , let that soak , holding KROIL vertically like a cup , that will feed its creeping action . might also give the hub/ axel area a few hammer taps , to assist starting , if it were running , drive around ,would assist oil movement , wiring looks like ,maybe  a chaif / corrosion  ? on your steering column , rusty bearing point , added a 2 bolt   flange bearing there , KROIL that  column  allen bolt , remove it , to hold soak .BTW  that steering column / battery area , is  GOLD   MINE , for i mprovements , been there , GO KROIL , pete

[smitty316 24]

Thanks for all that Pete! I really do appreciate it.

Smitty

[peter lena 8,576]

@smitty316  glad to join in , something we all commonly share is BEEN THERE DONE THAT !   thought , its a future reference , opportunity ,  get the vital repairs done first , then maybe add some related improvements . get some kroil in that , vertical carb cable spot , dash area also , also choke cable , pete

[sqrlgtr 552]

2 hours ago, smitty316 said:

I took the carb off and cleaned all the jets, filed the points and made sure they're set to .020" and I got it started. It took a while until I figured out that it doesn't get any spark until I let off the key. As long as it's cranking there's no spark at the plug. Soon as I let off with the key it gets spark and starts. I attached a picture of what it looks like behind the ignition switch (definitely been monkeyed with). Does this symptom sound familiar or any suggestions on figuring this out. Otherwise I guess I need to start with a wiring diagram.

Thanks, Smitty

I have run into the bad switch thing a time or two and my GT14 is like that now, no spark until you let go of switch. You should check and make sure switch is wired correctly first though.

[smitty316 24]

In the picture of the connector you can see two places where two wires are spliced together. I suspect that you're right that somethings going to the wrong terminal. I guess there's a place on here where I can get a wiring diagram for this beast.  After cleaning the carb (solid rust in the float bowl) and cleaning the points it was reassuring to hear it running so well. I think it's going to be a good machine and a great project. I'm just going to have to make sure it doesn't cut into my wife's honeydew list or mamma gets irritated. 

[ebinmaine 67,188]

1 hour ago, smitty316 said:

make sure it doesn't cut into my wife's honeydew list or mamma gets irritated

 

That's her problem.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But I'm spoiled. 

The guys here on Redsquare know full well how much my woman does around the acreage and workshop.  

 

She's..... unusual..... to say the least. 

 

 

 

[SylvanLakeWH 25,466]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

But I'm spoiled. 

The guys here on Redsquare know full well how much my woman does around the acreage and workshop.  

 

She's..... unusual..... to say the least. 

 

We have a winner in the understatement of the century!!! 

[ebinmaine 67,188]

7 hours ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

 

We have a winner in the understatement of the century!!! 

 

And I don't post anywhere NEAR everything she does....

Ponder on that!

[smitty316 24]

I used the model number off the engine to come up with the tractor info. It's a 1986 31-16K802. I found a wiring diagram for it, but the letters on my ignition switch don't match with the letters used in the wiring diagram. I guess this is the wrong switch and it's causing that strange starting situation I mentioned earlier. Any suggestions on hunting down a new switch?

 

 

 

23 hours ago, smitty316 said:

In the picture of the connector you can see two places where two wires are spliced together. I suspect that you're right that somethings going to the wrong terminal. I guess there's a place on here where I can get a wiring diagram for this beast.  After cleaning the carb (solid rust in the float bowl) and cleaning the points it was reassuring to hear it running so well. I think it's going to be a good machine and a great project. I'm just going to have to make sure it doesn't cut into my wife's honeydew list or mamma gets irritated. 

 

[ebinmaine 67,188]

Does your tractor have Points Ignition? 

 

NEVERMIND THAT....

 

I read back through your posts...

 

Edited August 1 by ebinmaine

[ebinmaine 67,188]

8 minutes ago, smitty316 said:

Any suggestions on hunting down a new switch?

 

A Toro  103990 is still readily available.  

 

There are a pile of cheap imitation switches.  

Don't use them. 

 

Get a good quality name brand replacement.  

 

Stens. Standard. Echlin/ napa. Etc. 

 

@76c12091520h  Brian Badman may have something.

 

[smitty316 24]

Thank you! This looks more like it so I ordered one. Hopefully my plug is original and will work with this switch. Now for the fun part of tracing all of this down with the wiring diagram.

 

Smitty