At what age does oil expire? With video.

[ebinmaine 67,569]

Mods, this applies to both engine and gear oils so I wasn't sure where to place it. Feel free to move the post. 

 

Interesting video. Basically what this whole thing comes down to is that no matter what the additive package is, the Anti-foaming Additives don't stay in suspension in any oil forever. 

Foam = air. 

Air doesn't lubricate. 

 

THAT'S the reason why NOT to use old oil. 

 

Towards the end he indicates that an oil over 3 to 5 years old really shouldn't be used in an application you care about. 

Recycle it as you would a used oil. 

It'll be re refined. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PWL216 889]

@ebinmaine Excellent video. Thx for sharing! 

[ebinmaine 67,569]

9 minutes ago, PWL216 said:

@ebinmaine Excellent video. Thx for sharing! 

 

 

Thanks sir. 

I figured there would be a few folks here that found this super useful.  

 

 

[ri702bill 8,327]

But that stuff just has to be good enough to use in the ex-wife's car, right?? 

[TractorEd 633]

Still better than water. 😂
 

makes my engines look and run like a mad dog!  foamin’ at the mouth!

 

I wasn’t impressed with the quick shot of the new oil foam.  Only showed it for 1/4 second from a weird top view, unlike the old oils from the side long enough to let the image sink in (of all the bubbles).

 

Just sayin’.  Could have cut out some footage for another 2-3 seconds showing the frothed up new oil.

 

everybody send me a new quart of 30w conventional oil with zinc additives so I can “test it out”.

 

Edited July 27 by TractorEd

[lynnmor 7,307]

Since some additives settle during long storage I think he should have mentioned if a shake well before use message on the label would be helpful.  I did notice that he made no effort to handle the containers carefully so as to not mix the ingredients.  He is a top notch oil expert with many useful videos but this one is not his best work, however he got the point across.

[oliver2-44 9,758]

Working at the dams, one of the interesting oil systems we had was 24 large low pressure)  hydraulic cylinders that operated large flood gates.  Within the dam in tunnels, there were redundant pumps, about 1-1-/2 mile of piping and two 150 gallon storage tanks.  The system was filled with roughly 5000 gallons of 1941 true Dino oil, plus makeup oil added over the years.  One of my projects was replacing an ancient bypass oil filter system.  There  was no easy/safe way to replace the oil as the system had  to stay operational.  We had a company wide contract with a major oil company.  We had a few years history of spot oil analysis samples and initially they insisted the oil needed to be replaced.   Over a few years we cleaned up the oil with  the new filter system.  Then the oil company made a concentrated additive package that we added a measured amount to the small storage tank and circulated the storage tank to mix it up.  So special additive blends can be made that will remix in oil.  Over a few years the additive was worked in the system.  Now for makeup oil, they buy a high pressure hydraulic oil which has a higher additive package.  This helps to keep the additives up in the system.    

 

Over the years we also had anti foaming and other additive packages made to add to the the large steam turbine/generator oil systems.  While these systems could be completely emptied to a storage tank, they rarely if ever had their complete oil replaced.  Filtration and oil analysis were critical on these high speed turbine systems.  

 

 

[adsm08 2,066]

15 hours ago, lynnmor said:

Since some additives settle during long storage I think he should have mentioned if a shake well before use message on the label would be helpful.  I did notice that he made no effort to handle the containers carefully so as to not mix the ingredients.  He is a top notch oil expert with many useful videos but this one is not his best work, however he got the point across.

 

I recently noticed that a "shake well before using" label had been added to the Ultra-Low Viscosity water that Ford tries to pass off as transmission fluid.

 

That plus this discussion makes me wonder if that's the reason we have so many issues with the transmissions that use it, the base oil is too thin to keep the additives in suspension.

 

I like to try and chalk it up to a garbage design, but the truth is the 8 and 10 speed units that use this stuff aren't really that different internally than the 6 speeds they replaced that didn't have these issues.

[lynnmor 7,307]

1 hour ago, adsm08 said:

 

I recently noticed that a "shake well before using" label had been added to the Ultra-Low Viscosity water that Ford tries to pass off as transmission fluid.

 

That plus this discussion makes me wonder if that's the reason we have so many issues with the transmissions that use it, the base oil is too thin to keep the additives in suspension.

 

I like to try and chalk it up to a garbage design, but the truth is the 8 and 10 speed units that use this stuff aren't really that different internally than the 6 speeds they replaced that didn't have these issues.

 

It is all about mandated fuel mileage requirements, they would use skunk pee if it would increase MPG by .001.

[Handy Don 12,233]

4 hours ago, adsm08 said:

the 8 and 10 speed units that use this stuff aren't really that different internally

The main gears are alike, for sure, but what’s in the differential is critically different (and comes into play whenever the tractor is making any sort of turn).

 

The 4- and 8-pinion diffs support the pinions on shafts so the only friction is with the shafts and between the engaged teeth of the other pinions and the axle gear.

The 10-pinion (6-speed LSD) diffs do not have shafts supporting the pinions. Here, while there is no shaft friction and the friction with the teeth of the other pinions and the axle gear is similar to the 4- and 8-pinion diffs, having the ends of the pinion’s teeth in constant contact with the walls of the circular cutouts in the pinion carriers the friction is much greater. In fact, it is this friction that provides the “LSD” capability (where the wheels try to turn in the same direction at the same time). 

Edited July 28 by Handy Don

[pfrederi 17,741]

16 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

The main gears are alike, for sure, but what’s in the differential is critically different (and comes into play whenever the tractor is making any sort of turn).

 

The 4- and 8-pinion diffs support the pinions on shafts so the only friction is with the shafts and between the engaged teeth of the other pinions and the axle gear.

The 10-pinion (6-speed LSD) diffs do not have shafts supporting the pinions. Here, while there is no shaft friction and the friction with the teeth of the other pinions and the axle gear is similar to the 4- and 8-pinion diffs, having the ends of the pinion’s teeth in constant contact with the walls of the circular cutouts in the pinion carriers the friction is much greater. In fact, it is this friction that provides the “LSD” capability (where the wheels try to turn in the same direction at the same time). 

 

 

The 10 pinion hydros the whole differential is submerged in fluid.  WH added and extension to the side fill cap on the gear drive 10 pinions to get more of the differential in lubricant...

[adsm08 2,066]

4 hours ago, Handy Don said:

The main gears are alike, for sure, but what’s in the differential is critically different (and comes into play whenever the tractor is making any sort of turn).

 

The 4- and 8-pinion diffs support the pinions on shafts so the only friction is with the shafts and between the engaged teeth of the other pinions and the axle gear.

The 10-pinion (6-speed LSD) diffs do not have shafts supporting the pinions. Here, while there is no shaft friction and the friction with the teeth of the other pinions and the axle gear is similar to the 4- and 8-pinion diffs, having the ends of the pinion’s teeth in constant contact with the walls of the circular cutouts in the pinion carriers the friction is much greater. In fact, it is this friction that provides the “LSD” capability (where the wheels try to turn in the same direction at the same time). 

 

 

Except I am talking about Ford's 6R80 and 10R80 rear-wheel drive automatic transmissions. They are almost identical in terms of their internals, except for fluid pump arrangement, but the 10 speed uses a much thinner fluid and has many more issues.

[Handy Don 12,233]

1 hour ago, adsm08 said:

Except I am talking about Ford's 6R80 and 10R80

Oops! 

[lynnmor 7,307]

So here is a followup video with lab proved results showing that oil ages out and shaking is of little value.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeNLVUdoBU0

[ebinmaine 67,569]

Some extremely interesting information in that video.

[Handy Don 12,233]

13 hours ago, lynnmor said:

So here is a followup video with lab proved results showing that oil ages out and shaking is of little value.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeNLVUdoBU0

The message in that video that sticks for me was that as “crude” oil the old oil is fine, but as “engine” oil it's kaput.

Edited July 29 by Handy Don

[ebinmaine 67,569]

1 minute ago, Handy Don said:

The message in that video that sticks for me was that as “crude” oil ithe old oil is fine, but as “engine” oil it's kaput.

 

Agreed. Also gear oil or transmission oil.