Wrong 30 Weight??

[rmaynard 15,509]

14 hours ago, squonk said:

SAE 30 just means it's weight (viscosity)  at 32° or higher. Got to look at the API rating on the bottle if any. I wouldn't use it. Kohler says to use Detergent oil in all of their engines. I bet Briggs does too. Non detergent oil should be used in non combustion applications like compressors and pumps.

Mike, I thought that with your connection to NAPA, you may have seen this:

 

NAPA SAE 30W Non-Detergent Motor Oil

 

That info, along with Brian Miller's thoughts on oil, and those of many old-timers (older than me) have convinced me to keep using non-detergent oil in older Kohler engines.

 

HOWEVER...there is always that school of thought that says replace your oil every spring and fall, and it doesn't matter what you use.

[WHX?? 48,828]

28 minutes ago, rmaynard said:

Mike, I thought that with your connection to NAPA, you may have seen this:

Wow Bob that's wackin ole Squonky right in the nads... Im' next for a shot at him... 

 

Wonder if any truth to it or NAPA blowin their own horn.

Bit pricey considering one has ?? tractors to feed.  I think I paid 19.95 for the 2 gal jug. Fixed income ya know Squonky says ... 

'Course they say it's Valvoline. Hear tell VaIvoline and NAPA gots a nasty expensive NASCAR habit.

Didn't see if it's got a API tag. May have to get a quart just to see what color it is. 

 

What flavor do you you use Bob? 

Edited July 22 by WHX??

[rmaynard 15,509]

17 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

What flavor do you you use Bob? 

I currently use this:

Edited July 22 by rmaynard

[953 nut 55,290]

I have been running Tractor Supply "Traveller" 30W Diesel motor oil.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/traveller-all-fleet-engine-oil-sae-30-2-gal-t804739-1636272?store=1398&cid=Google-Shopping&utm_medium=Google&utm_source=Shopping&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwhvi0BhA4EiwAX25uj7b1gv7Z1ti7gEyI33P7U6ZYm_Xr_apx3-R1MB2Q0LACGNYe4lHW0BoCr9gQAvD_BwE

 

• Specially engineered engine oil designed for heavy-duty diesel and gasoline engines operating under all service conditions
• Contains only high viscosity index lubricating oils and a unique blend of detergents, dispersants, anti-oxidants, friction modifiers and viscosity improvers to provide superior performance and protection
• Reduces friction to extend engine life and optimize fuel economy
• Neutralizes and disperses combustion by-products to prevent harmful deposits
• High film strength stands up to stress of high temperature and high load operating conditions
• Excellent low temperature flow properties to speed cold starts
• Temperature rating: -17 to 450 degrees F
• Exceeds the following performance requirements for older equipment: MIL CID A-A-52306A, Allison C-4, Caterpillar TO-2, Man 270, Mercedes Benz 228.0, MTU Type 1
• Engine oil is recommended for automotive service of gasoline engines requiring API performance SL and SJ and for international 4-cycle motorcycle engines requiring JASO MA performance
• SAE 30W CJ-4 formula is super useful in a wide range of machines

[squonk 41,142]

Kohler says Detergent oil. That's what I use. Use what you like. Results may vary. I use Rotella 30W year round. 

 

I bought my C-160 with 700 hrs. on it. It smoked like crazy. Oil  was as black as I ever saw it. I put some kero in the crankcase and spun the engine by hand to swish it around then drained it. Chunks of sludge came out. I theorized it had non detergent in it for a long time. Put in the Rotella and 300 hrs. later the piston broke. The inside looked like this. Again run whatever the hell you want. 

 

[ebinmaine 67,567]

3 hours ago, JoeM said:

ZDDP helps with anti wear on flat tappets, but how much is enough? Is more better? IDK

 

There's a channel on YouTube that's a former Joe Gibbs guy. I don't recall the name. 

 

He says more is NOT better with ZDDP because too much will do different types of damage.  

 

I think the happy zone is around 1200ppm to maybe 1400, 1500ppm?

 

 

[lynnmor 7,307]

9 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

There's a channel on YouTube that's a former Joe Gibbs guy. I don't recall the name. 

 

He says more is NOT better with ZDDP because too much will do different types of damage.  

 

I think the happy zone is around 1200ppm to maybe 1400, 1500ppm?

 

 

Here ya go: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=oil+geek

 

There is enough information in his videos to make your head spin, but then some here start spinning at just a mention of motor oil.

[ebinmaine 67,567]

@lynnmor

Perfect!  Thanks.  

[Handy Don 12,233]

1 hour ago, lynnmor said:

some here start spinning at just a mention of motor oil.

Does oil interact with the correct paint colors?! 

[lynnmor 7,307]

3 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Does oil interact with the correct paint colors?! 

You would need to ask our resident lube specialist, he greases everything in sight, even paint. 

[bds1984 1,435]

https://pqia.org

 

Read through their website.  1,200 ppm zinc is the sweet spot .  Too much is corrosive, but, there wasn't as much ZDDP (zinc) in the older oils like we thought and if one scrolls back a lot, you'll see them test oils from the 60s-80s to prove this.  Maintaining proper oil levels and changing the oil appropriately is far more important than brand/type/formula/etc.  I have good luck with Rotella and Wolf's Head, both easy to find.  If I find Brad Penn/Penn Grade 1, I will run that, too.  The green oil is a bit of a trip when pouring it out, but it is good stuff.  

[adsm08 2,066]

11 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

Also of note, SJ rating should be considered the upper limit on usable oil in flat tappet engines like most of ours are. 

Anything with a Letter higher than "J" will have reduced ZDDP. 

 

Does it really matter when we're changing the oil every 25 to 50 hours?  Probably not.... 

But the small engine rated oils are readily available and often less expensive than modern gasoline rated oils so why not?

 

 

I use CJ4 in anything I can get it for.

 

High-detergent, high zinc.

[lynnmor 7,307]

19 minutes ago, bds1984 said:

https://pqia.org

 

Read through their website.  1,200 ppm zinc is the sweet spot .  Too much is corrosive, but, there wasn't as much ZDDP (zinc) in the older oils like we thought and if one scrolls back a lot, you'll see them test oils from the 60s-80s to prove this.  Maintaining proper oil levels and changing the oil appropriately is far more important than brand/type/formula/etc.  I have good luck with Rotella and Wolf's Head, both easy to find.  If I find Brad Penn/Penn Grade 1, I will run that, too.  The green oil is a bit of a trip when pouring it out, but it is good stuff.  

 

Blackstone Laboratories bought up a number of vintage oils and ran them thru their lab, you might be interested in the results.  Look at the Phosphorus and zinc readings and you will see that many had plenty of ZDDP, while a few were way down.  I suppose that the intended use was a factor.  https://www.blackstone-labs.com/?s=ebay+oils

[953 nut 55,290]

5 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Does oil interact with the correct paint colors?! 

Nope,  not too many paint their Wheel Horses but most of us change oil or at  least add a little therefor, oil trumps paint.        

[bds1984 1,435]

1 hour ago, lynnmor said:

 

Blackstone Laboratories bought up a number of vintage oils and ran them thru their lab, you might be interested in the results.  Look at the Phosphorus and zinc readings and you will see that many had plenty of ZDDP, while a few were way down.  I suppose that the intended use was a factor.  https://www.blackstone-labs.com/?s=ebay+oils

That is what I was referring to.  I forgot that it was Blackstone, I just remember seeing it being published on the pqia site.  I use Blackstone for UOAs for my cars on occasion when I really feel like nerding out on an oil change.  

[JoeM 7,874]

I seen this website for oil testing, it list the diesel and passenger car oils tested along with transmission oils, lots of info.

https://pqia.org/heavy-duty-diesel-engine-oil/

 

sample info

[adsm08 2,066]

23 hours ago, 953 nut said:

Nope,  not too many paint their Wheel Horses but most of us change oil or at  least add a little therefor, oil trumps paint.        

 

Now now, we already have oil and paint. Let's no bring government politics into this too.

[clueless 3,002]

Come on guys, these old air cooled flat heads have been around longer than I've been alive (1954) many still running with out a rebuild. Do you think the original owners or the second, third or fourth had charts, in depth studies and wed sites to find out the best oil to use? They just used what the owners manual said and changed it when they were supposed to. 20+ post in two days and we are still not sure what to use.  I've been using Rotella 40w for at least 25+ years with no oil related problems, I live where the temp outside can be 90 to over 100 degrees when using my stuff. If it so cold out side the starter won't turn it over I don't need to be out there in the first place .

[ebinmaine 67,567]

7 hours ago, clueless said:

20+ post in two days and we are still not sure what to use

 

Given the government "information" and corporate media that we have been absolutely inundated with literally thousands of times over the last several decades, this is sadly understandable.

 

7 hours ago, clueless said:

I've been using Rotella 40w for at least 25+ years with no oil related problems, I live where the temp outside can be 90 to over 100 degrees when using my stuff. If it so cold out side the starter won't turn it over I don't need to be out there in the first place

 

 

The above quote kind of proves the point that there are necessary changes in oil viscosities though.

Maine is warming faster than any of the other 48 contiguous states so the weather here is changing rapidly and increasing temperature and we are seeing more and more days above 85 to 95° during the course of the summer.

That said though, during the winter it regularly gets down to zero degrees or even lower. The majority of my tractor seat time is spent plowing snow in temperatures that are almost always below freezing.

 

In temperatures like that a 40 weight oil is more like cheese.

 

 

 

Really to cut it right down to base level,

 

CHANGE

 

YOUR

 

OIL

 

 

But it does have to be compatible with your environment.

 

 

[RED-Z06 2,221]

There was a huge industry wide misconception that arose at some point that Small Engines need "sae30 non-detergent" oil, and that is information that has killed many engines before their time.

 

Detergents keep the carbon particles in the oil in suspension, they also prevent oxidation, theres also additives that neutralize the acidity of the oil after running

ND oil is just oil, after running, the carbon settles out, over time you get a heavy layer of sludge that doesnt flush out, its pretty impervious to most solvents too.  With detergents, the nastiness drains out the engine.

 

Dollar General was sued for selling ND sae30 oil that wasn't explicity labeled as "not for engine use", and it killed alot of engines.

 

ND oils are appropriate for compressors, and power washer pumps.

[squonk 41,142]

 

Kohler says USE DETERGENT OIL What's so hard to understand? Just because you've gotten by with ND. oil doesn't make it right. Guys spend all kinds of time and money on making a tractor restored and " original" then insist on using the wrong oil. 

[Lagersolut 661]

I've been using Rotella 30w for years - getting it at Auto zone in the diesel oil section - 30w isn't the easiest thing to find around here - Wal Mart and tractor supply are usually (esp Wal Mart)  picked clean like the ammo section so I don't even bother wasting the gas looking anymore - couple of years ago the jungle site had a deal on the 5 quart Penzoil 5w-30 jugs (for the P-up) for 18 each - checked websites at all the brick and mortar stores wanted 24-26 a jug so I stocked up . Last time I was at tractor supply for electric fence stuff,  checked the oil isle just to be nosy - wasn't a 30w container to be found - shelf was picked 3/4 clean - Auto zone always has it so its my new honey hole for tractor oil .

[RED-Z06 2,221]

3 hours ago, squonk said:

 

Kohler says USE DETERGENT OIL What's so hard to understand? Just because you've gotten by with ND. oil doesn't make it right. Guys spend all kinds of time and money on making a tractor restored and " original" then insist on using the wrong oil. 

What's funny is, the currently available "minimum" standard for oil, is SJ, which was the standard in 1996, most oils you will find today are SM or SN graded, and its so much better than the obsolete oil standards, the cheapest off brand oil you find today is worlds better than manufacturers standards in the 60s-80s.  And people will go out and look for worse oil...

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,324]

  Oil topics always get a couple pages or more  ! 
  Bought this Rotella stuff today for the first time ever..why not? 
 

 

 

[RED-Z06 2,221]

15 minutes ago, Sparky said:

  Oil topics always gets rare a couple pages of more  ! 
  Bought this Rotella stuff today for the first time ever..why not? 
 

 

 

Diesel oil is good, alot of good additives to help deal with pressure and carbon.

 

Im using T6 15w40 in my Deere 455 Diesel, ill catch T4 on sale sometimes and grab a few