Asking for a friend

[Horsin'round 82]

I have used this forum for a number of years,  and it never ceases to amaze me,  the depth of knowledge within. 

 

Given the type of people,  and their attention to detail that I have observed on RedSquare, it would seem to me that there would be hardware lists pertaining to specific tractors.  For instance,  if " my friend " were restoring his ( her) suburban 400, and wanted to use, say, stainless or grade-8 nuts and bolts, there would be a list of what to purchase- sizes, TPI, type of nut, quantity, etc..

 

 

It seems that this would be a useful tool for many here. I would expect that these lists exist,  if only in members notebooks. Is this a resource that could be shared within this forum?

 

Thank you!

 

 

 

[Pullstart 62,947]

@WHX?? @Achto?

[wallfish 17,023]

Reuse the old hardware. It's much better quality than anything made today.

You will probably get 99-100% of those old 1960 bolts and nuts apart without much of a problem at all whereas you might get 30-40% or even less off 2002 machine without stripping and cutting them off.

If you change all the hardware keep it all,  send it to me and I'll pay shipping.

[Horsin'round 82]

Unfortunately,  this tractor is far from it's original state.  A good deal of the original hardware was replaced long ago.  I picked it as an example,  due to the simplicity. 

 

In a broader sense,  as the tractors became more complex,  the hardware lists would become lengthy.  At one time or another,  someone has had their way with most (all) of them, out of necessity or ignorance. Very few are original down to every nut and bolt.

 

There are many threads in restorations that reference replacing all the hardware.  A repository of this knowledge would be of use for future restoration attempts.  Just my . 

[oliver2-44 9,787]

 

@Horsin'round I have a spreadsheet in the works for the suburban 400  I just need to finish it one of the hot afternoons. 

[WHX?? 48,853]

No such lists as far as I know. Many of the IPLs do list thread & length sizes. 

Acto and I favor stainless on our restos. Obviously not orginal and 'Fish has a valid point about today's hardware. Even our stainless can show signs of rust. 

Also since Dan is a hardware hoarder from work often times what we have in the bins is what gets used. 

 

[JoeM 7,874]

7 hours ago, wallfish said:

Reuse the old hardware. It's much better quality than anything made today.

And the steel used then was way better too. You can really tell when you weld it.

 

Not only to mention, the better offshore hardware stuff is 4-5$ a pound.

McMaster still sells a lot of US high quality hardware, about double the price tho. 

[ebinmaine 67,766]

8 hours ago, wallfish said:

Reuse the old hardware. It's much better quality than anything made today.

You will probably get 99-100% of those old 1960 bolts and nuts apart without much of a problem at all whereas you might get 30-40% or even less off 2002 machine without stripping and cutting them off.

If you change all the hardware keep it all,  send it to me and I'll pay shipping.

 

John I've got some buckets of Hardware I can try to put together for you. 

 

23 minutes ago, JoeM said:

McMaster still sells a lot of US high quality hardware, about double the price tho

 

 

I agree with both comments above.

All of the tractors we've rebuilt are for working purposes. I keep a fair selection of grade 8 nuts bolts washers etc on hand.

Almost everything I buy comes from Bolt Depot in Hingham Massachusetts. Good quality product. I don't have issues with fast rusting or galling or stripping threads. It's important to keep in mind our machines are stored indoors. We work them in the winter and they do run in the rain and snow though.

 

 

My old ball and chain and I have been asked several times over the last few years about creating a list in generic form. I've been asked in fact, if I would resell what I buy because I purchase everything in bulk. I've certainly considered both but haven't gotten around to doing either, mostly because of time constraints.

 

 

[953 nut 55,394]

In my opinion buying individual fasteners for each specific job is a waste of time and money.        If you are only going to do this one job and never go into your shop to do anything in the future then I guess it would work out for you but who does that!

I have bins of various size fasteners in my shop, some are new but most are salvaged older nuts and cap screws from parts tractors. Probably some of that stuff has been with me for more than twenty years awaiting the right opportunity to save the day. If I need something for a repair it is right there in the shop. If I am running low I buy a box, not just one piece.

Start by buying a box each of 1/4-20, 5/16-18 and 3/8-16 nuts. Add a box of each size cap screws in one inch and two inch length and you will have what you need for the majority of your work. 

 

[Horsin'round 82]

7 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Many of the IPLs do list thread & length sizes. 

 

I've gone through the IPL, both in the manual and on partstree. I could find no reference to to size, length,  thread count. 

 

While I would prefer to use original hardware, 

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

mostly because of time constraints

 

I will do what i I am capable of, to produce an honest restoration. 

 

Here is a short list of what is mismatched,  misfitted,  and missing hardware that I am aware of at this point:

 

Stove bolts - 1271, 1201, 1179

Hex bolts/nuts - 1061/1016, 1028/1016

Hex bolt 1287.

 

If someone is willing to help me source good original parts, it would be greatly appreciated. 

 

In addition,  the most difficult tins are absent - the belt guard and heat shield.  The shower cap muffler will be another challenge.  I anticipate that I will eventually be chasing these parts as well. 

     

[Horsin'round 82]

I feel that we have drifted away from the original intent of this thread.

 

I am a bit of a hardware hoarder, and have coffee cans full of assorted nuts, bolts and washers, as well as boxes and blister packs from stores. This approach still tends to fall short of (my) needs.

 

I can source hardware from several good stores near me, and McMaster delivers in a day. But sizing the correct hardware sometimes requires several trips to the store. Not all IPLs provide this information. This was an attempt to bridge that gap. 

 

If I know,  going into the process,  the correct sizing,  it would streamline things,  saving time and effort to "reinvent the wheel ".

 

I am aware that folks are doing this, but it has not yet been codified and made available. That is what I was suggesting. 

 

 

[Handy Don 12,281]

30 minutes ago, Horsin'round said:

I know,  going into the process,  the correct sizing,  it would streamline things,  saving time and effort to "reinvent the wheel ".

I am aware that folks are doing this, but it has not yet been codified and made available. That is what I was suggesting. 

This is a noble idea. On the face, it looks too big to tackle but I suspect that it lacks only someone (hint, hint) to create an example for one model or implement and then coordinate volunteers to take on doing the takeoffs using the IPLs from individual year/models.

I’ll bet that  @gwest_ca would be happy to extend his very functional naming system to incorporate the added files as appendices to the IPLs.

 

It definitely does NOT solve the problem of finding the right bolt, nut, washer, or whatever amidst the coffee cans/jars/boxes! 

[Achto 27,640]

I have replaced most of the hardware on my resto's but have never bothered to catalog it. Might have to take it into consideration on the next one.

[squonk 41,171]

When I buy nuts and bolts I buy extra. Go to a place that sells it by the pound.

 

When buying stainless, be aware stainless nuts and bolts don't like each other. They gall easily and if it happens as you are installing one, you're cutting it off. They lock up tighter than a crick rock

 

I had the bright idea of installing some 7/8" stainless bolts and nuts on a new pump installation at work. I figured when it's time to overhaul the pump, it will come right apart. Well the supplier installed the wrong impeller. So as I was removing the bolts, all 4 galled and locked up. Mr. Flame Wrench had to come out!