782 Cub

[WHX?? 48,815]

Got for a song... might win a award for the filthiest tractor ever. Stripped down for a bath & a real pain getting engine tins off. 

 

I had looked at this tractor a couple years ago as having a donor motor for a ailing C-195. Super C since moved on. 

 

KT17 series 1 with some hours on the clock but runs good. Always operated on flat ground. 

 

Kohler must be embarrassed with series 1 as they won't even give a IPL! 

This one will get flipped after full maintenance. 

Any one care to guess it's worth? Has a 44" deck in nice shape and a brand new electric clutch.

Edited June 20 by WHX??

[ebinmaine 67,498]

I've had kind of a fancy for those for quite a while. You may remember the picture of my grandfather on his red IHC Cub....

 

[WHX?? 48,815]

Anyone cipher for the year? 

This one has IH badging & @Achtosays that was stripped off when MTD took over the brand early 1980s? 

[Achto 27,575]

The IH serial numbers 

 

1979	2050594U643507
1980	2050594U667400
1981	2050594U685776

 

IH sold the line to MTD in May of '81. The last recorded SN was at the beginning of April & ended in 693143. I can not find a list for the MTD models 1982 - '85 Looks like yours may be an '82 or newer.

Edited June 20 by Achto

[Achto 27,575]

Did some more research.

 

MTD switched to using the model number to indicate the year of the tractor.

 

Model number staring with - 

142 = 1982

143 = 1983

144 = 1984

145 = 1985

[Achto 27,575]

More indications as to who was in charge when the tractor was built.

 

'79 - 81 serial plate will say International Harvester - Chicago IL

'82 - '85 serial plate will say Cub Cadet - Brownsville or Cleveland  

 

IH used iron for the tranny cases, MTD apparently switched to using aluminum.  

 

Nuff learning for me today. 

Edited June 20 by Achto

[ebinmaine 67,498]

16 minutes ago, Achto said:

IH used iron for the tranny cases, MTD apparently switched to using aluminum

@WHX??

So which one does yours have?

 

 

17 minutes ago, Achto said:

Nuff learning for me today. 

You did good !

[WHX?? 48,815]

44 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

So which one does yours have?

 

Not sure so frickin dirty not a bare piece of metal showing! Pump is AL but they all were. Will find out at bath 🛁 

44 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

You did good !

Yeah  Thanks.. I had a hard time just finding manuals. Tractor Data wasn't real helpful. 

Will call it a '83 MTD.

Me thinks MTD may have paid IH to use their badging & trademarks for awhile. Sales  & marketing don't ya know. 

Thing sure does have the customary Cub hydro road gear tho. 

Skiing anyone!?!?

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,496]

When MTD bought the Cub Cadet line, they kept the production and the design for a few years.  That having a KT17 Series one engine makes it an earlier 782, probably making this a complete IH design, even if MTD owned CC at the time of build.  One of the first things MTD did in the CC line on the garden tractors is replaced the cast iron transmission with weaker, light aluminum cast transmissions.  But that 782 probably has a bullet proof transmission regardless.

[ebinmaine 67,498]

@WHX??

 

You got any pictures of this thing before you took it apart?

[WHX?? 48,815]

Just these two...EB?

No drain plug on transmission Dan? 

[WHX?? 48,815]

 

Appears the transmission is cast with AL axle stubs. Uses the same 1410 NAPA/ 3990 Toro filter as horses. 

Wonder can a guy drain the tranny by taking off the rear plate or the pump suction tube? Otherwise cleaned up nice. 

Edited June 21 by WHX??

[sergeant 291]

On 6/20/2024 at 7:50 AM, WHX?? said:

Got for a song... might win a award for the filthiest tractor ever. Stripped down for a bath & a real pain getting engine tins off. 

 

I had looked at this tractor a couple years ago as having a donor motor for a ailing C-195. Super C since moved on. 

 

KT17 series 1 with some hours on the clock but runs good. Always operated on flat ground. 

 

Kohler must be embarrassed with series 1 as they won't even give a IPL! 

This one will get flipped after full maintenance. 

Any one care to guess it's worth? Has a 44" deck in nice shape and a brand new electric clutch.

The Kohler K series I gave John Deere a Bad reputation with the Model 317. Later 317's or Dealer replacement engines were Kohler K series II and eventually Onan engines. The series left such a Bad taste In Deere's Mouth that when the closed Frame 300 came Out 316, 318, and 420, Deere went to the Twin cylinder ONAN as the Primary Power Plant for the air cooled Garden tractor with a Twin cylinder engine. They stayed with the Kohler Single cylinder In the 200 series until 1987. After 1987, there would be Very few Kohler engines In General Used By Deere Until they Introduced the Sabre Line. Deere started using Kawasaki engines In the 1988 and newer 200 series. It really wasn't Until the GT225 was Introduced In 1999 did Deere go back to using a Kohler in their Name Brand Garden tractor's.. To a Point I would say the Deere design department still mistrusts Kohler  40 some years Later . The Series I was fine If You Had a Flat to gradual Hill Yard  Many Manufacturer went to the K series II and offer replacement engines for tractor with the K series I for several years  which Kohler would foot the Bill on. My Main House property I could probably run a Kohler series I on and Have no issues with it . My Vacation House I bet a K series I would die on because of the 4 steep Hills

[OoPEZoO 524]

On 6/21/2024 at 9:16 AM, WHX?? said:

Wonder can a guy drain the tranny by taking off the rear plate or the pump suction tube?

 

 

Short answer, YES, unbolt the rear plate to drain the tranny.  That will also expose the ring gear, so you can have a decent look/see to make sure everything looks decent.  

 

Wow, you weren't kidding about that thing being filthy.  Looks to be in good shape though.  I imagine you will have zero issues finding it a new home once its cleaned up.

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,498]

9 hours ago, OoPEZoO said:

zero issues finding it a new home

 

Heck if it was closer.....

 

[wh500special 2,183]

Those are nice tractors.  
 

I have a diesel sibling to that one.  It has a 15 hp, 3-cylinder Kubota.  I never saw under the hood of a gas model and now see that the fuel tank and battery swap locations based on fuel type.  Interesting.  
 

I’m sure the aluminum casting is cheaper than iron, but I also wonder if this was done to improve transmission cooling as well. Aluminum conducts and rejects heat much better than steel.  And I don’t know that I’ve heard of too many of these types of machines with broken transaxle cases.  Ferguson used the same aluminum case strategy on the TE-20 full sized tractors in the 1950’s due to differences in lubricant availability (edit: and their concomitant heat handling capabilities).   (Btw:  Built in Europe, TE stood for “Tractor Europe” and TO for “Tractor Overseas”).

 

Mine (Cub Cadet, not a Fergie) came from the original owner and has about 3500 hours on it.  No signs of transmission problems or cracks.  It always wore weights and chains too as the previous - and only other - owner had a hilly yard. 
 

Terry probably knows…did the Supers use the same aluminum case?

 

you’re also right about the road gear…these suckers are fast!

 

Nice tractor.  Looks like a keeper 😎

 

Steve

Edited June 26 by wh500special

[Achto 27,575]

On 6/21/2024 at 8:16 AM, WHX?? said:

Uses the same 1410 NAPA/ 3990

 

It does use a Sundstrand pump. 

[wh500special 2,183]

On 6/21/2024 at 9:38 AM, sergeant said:

The Kohler K series I gave John Deere a Bad reputation with the Model 317. Later 317's or Dealer replacement engines were Kohler K series II and eventually Onan engines…

 Agreed. 
 

But that reputation also followed the 17 hp Cub, simplicity, and - to a lesser degree - Wheel Horse.  Unfortunately, the KT wasn’t Kohler’s only misbehaved child: Don’t forget the KV and the Triad.  
 

In talking to Ed from Toro at the WH show over the years, I learned that the change to Onan for Wheel Horse was mostly a product of the higher torque output of the P-series compared to the contemporary Kohler twins.  I would bet this was also significant for Deere.  And since Deere prioritized noise and smoothness in their machines I think the Onan was a more natural fit.  
 

It’s sometimes overlooked, but the C-175 with the KT wasn’t Wheel Horse’s first twin cylinder in the classic frame.  It was the Briggs boxer 16 hp in the C-161.  That Briggs engine and the last minute fiberglass hood that accompanied it were direct consequences of the troubles Kohler was having with the KT in the competition’s machines (also from Ed).  WH bought some time by withholding the planned C-171 while they watched what was going on elsewhere.   Apparently they gained enough faith that the KT would work well in their setup to drop the C161 for the new C175 after two seasons.  And it almost worked.  
 

The transverse mounting made a big difference compared to the longitudinal competitors.  My guess was it had to do with tolerance to prolonged side hill mowing with the crankshaft pointed sideways. 
 

steve

Edited June 26 by wh500special

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,496]

Deere actually put Kohler Commands in the STX line in the early 90s.  When Deere brought out the 112L in 1985 to replace the 111H, they went with Kawasaki, which started a trend of Deere using Kawasaki engines in a lot of their lawn and garden tractors.  They also put them in the rear engine riders.  It  would have made sense for Deere to put Onans in the 316, 318 and 420 tractors as Deere offered an Onan as replacement engines in the problematic 317s with the KT17 Series I. 

[ebinmaine 67,498]

Any updates on this one?

[Rick3478 428]

The series 1's were said to have oiling problems if not kept level, and gained a reputation for dying on hillsides.  The series 2 was supposed to fix those problems but the damage to reputation was already done.