Raider 12 drive belt

[raye321 8]

Hi,  I have a 1971 Raider 12. I replaced the drive belt (the original belt !)  which calls for a 5/8" x 82" belt and is D&D PowerDrive B79/5L820 V Belt, 5/8" x 82"  brand. It went on okay but is tight. I hardly have any pedal. The smaller upper pully that moves with the brake pedal is at about at the 1 o'clock position and the guide above the pully touches the top of the belt. I haven't tried it yet because I'm waiting for a mower belt to pto and a bearing for the tension pulley on that belt to arrive that I ordered from ebay. 

Wandering if there is another belt size or brand that would be a better fit.

Thank you

Ray

[ebinmaine 67,502]

 

 

 

I've had mixed results using aftermarket belts on my mid 70s C series tractors. 

 

I now use only Wheelhorse brand 7473. 

Pricing is comparable to other good quality brands. 

 

Some folks have had good luck with Gates/Napa. 

I like Gates but use the WH belts because I can get the OE for less. 

 

 

[daveoman1966 3,752]

Get the OEM 7473 belt...will solve your problems.  Know too that the belt guard has to be on to properly disengage the engine pulley when going to neutral.  There is a 'rail' on the back side of the belt guard that 'catches' the slack when pressing the clutch pedal.  Parts Tree is a source for the OEM belt.

   

[raye321 8]

Seems like it's a bit wide at 5/8".  In the attached pic is the new belt. 5/8" x82". The top guide scraped the top of the belt off. Can't get it into gear. I think the problem with the after market belts is the angle of the V and or belt depth. Doesn't fit into the pulley properly. I can't seem to find the oem wheel horse 7473 or gates 6982.

Edited June 18 by raye321

[daveoman1966 3,752]

Get the OEM 7473 belt here....  A little pricey, but you know its right. and will outlast 3 or4 aftermarket belts.   ps...the belt guard MUST be on for the 7473 belt to 'disengage' the engine crankshaft when you push the clutch pedal.  

https://www.partstree.com/search/?type=part&term=7473

[ebinmaine 67,502]

7 hours ago, raye321 said:

I can't seem to find the oem wheel horse 7473

 

Just gotta know who to poke for the right answer...

 

There are a couple vendors on Redsquare that may have it. 

 

 

4 hours ago, daveoman1966 said:

  A little pricey,

 

Dave, they wanted almost $70 (with shipping) to here. 

 

 

 

I've been paying about $40, $45. from 

"Bill's Place/ Outdoor Power Equipment"

 

Here's an item number for the OE Wheelhorse/ Toro belt:

 

282356437323

 

Or try searching on ebay:

 

NEW GENUINE OEM TORO PART # 7473 V BELT FOR TORO TRACTORS ; REPLACES 78-7100

 

 

 

[squonk 41,118]

I use aftermarket belts all the time. They work fine. That plate on the idler is bent too far forward. It should not have scraped the belt. I'm  sure it's too late to double check the number on the belt. Take it off and measure the outside of the belt with a tape measure. Belts are in the wrong package all the time. If you have a Tractor Supply near by try another 5L820

[peter lena 8,627]

@raye321 just my own 2 cents , how freely does , every related belt driven connection move ? see regular belt driven anything , also fighting related belt driven handoff . personally like the T/S  aramid belts , just go in and match what you have / need . often refer to a hands on verification to pulley movement points . very often finding related belt connection , linkage / related causing the issue . also check out your belt tension pull spring , related areas . make the rust run out . how easily does that idler pulley move ? rough / binding in any way ? your side engine , belt picture , is drawing me into its  total reaction . get a helper to watch what's going on . hope you find it , pete

[Lee1977 6,659]

I haven't had any trouble with the Tractor Supply belts,. Have drive belt on a 312-8, 520-H and a couple mule drive belts. They are building a new Tractor Supply three miles down the road from my house. I'll go down and restock my parts draw when they open.

[gt14rider 760]

Just bought this , free shipping. 

[raye321 8]

I replaced the  mower to pto belt with after market brand with no problem. Cost $10 & free shipping from ebay.  

Pictured here is the top of new belt- right and old belt. Other pic; side of belts. Old belt at top. 

I measured the old belt at about 1/2" width, new belt 5/8".  Sides, old belt about 3/8", new belt 7/16".

It's hard to tell if the old belt was same measurements as the new belt and worn down that much.

[squonk 41,118]

The belt is supposed to be 5/8" From you picture the belt sits in the pulleys fine. That worn out belt is either really worn down or the wrong one to begin with. Either go to Tractor Supply or go to Napa. Napa # is 5L820W (Gates brand belt) And move this guide back so it's not contacting the belt when tight. 

 

[ebinmaine 67,502]

4 minutes ago, squonk said:

this guide

 

contacting the belt  

 

 

There should be a hole in the back of that belt guide so you can pivot it on the bolt that holds the pulley in place.

 

I've seen a couple of those guys that were welded onto the arm instead, and wrong. I've had to use a monkey wrench or whatever to "convince" the front of it up a little bit.

 

You folks take a look at the front of that guide. Looks like it's got a bit of a point on the outside which may indicate that a belt or the pulley or both has been rubbing on it in the past.

[Handy Don 12,232]

25 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Looks like it's got a bit of a point on the outside which may indicate that a belt or the pulley or both has been rubbing on it in the past.

Yes, and since the belt is rotating toward the downward sharpened edge of the flange, it will get eaten.

[raye321 8]

I bent the belt guide a little trying to get it off the belt. I can straighten it out. I took the belt off but I'm going to put it back on and pivot the belt guide back, see if that works.

Although, I think when I first installed the new belt, it pulled the pulley forward to where you see it in the pic.

If it should be 5/8" wide, 7/16 depth, the belt should work.  I have seen some with the 7473 replacement that measures 21/32 wide and 3/8" depth.

[ebinmaine 67,502]

4 hours ago, raye321 said:

 

If it should be 5/8" wide, 7/16 depth, the belt should work.  I have seen some with the 7473 replacement that measures 21/32 wide and 3/8" depth.

 

I have a couple at home that are NOS and later model. I can check the measurements...

[ebinmaine 67,502]

[daveoman1966 3,752]

For any belt sizes, go here:  

Just enter the OEM belt number up front and it'll tell all you need to know: 

https://outdoorpowerinfo.com/belts/#result

[squonk 41,118]

Napa 5L820W (Gates) Effective length 82.15"   Top width .66" Belt angle 37°

[daveoman1966 3,752]

I don't know the geometry (geo) of Wheelhorse belts, but I do know that these older tractors, pre TORO, have proprietary pulleys on most of them.  If the belt does not precisely match the geo of the related pulley(s), it will give you grief in more ways than one.  The belt will either ride too high or too low in the pulley (width/thick) or not match the 'V' angle (slip) or be too rigid or flexy.  In any case, optimum performance likely won't be had.  Bite the bullet---get the OEM belt.  

     

[raye321 8]

I tried to move the guide rail above the pulley today, it is welded. I have to assume it's welded for a reason and shouldn't be messed with.

It is frustrating when I look up 7473 or 5L820w-Gate belts and there are variations of the measurements for that belt. some are 21/32" , 5/8" width. 82" length. 7/16" depth, 3/8" depth.

Spuonk mentioned 82.15" Top width .66" Belt angle 37 degrees.

Spuonk, have you used this size belt on a 1971 wheel horse raider 12?

ebinmaine, are any of the belts you pictured of that size?

If I could find the belts locally at least I can bring them back the same day if they don't fit and try another but I can't find any local.

I find it interesting that when I look up the OEM wheel Horse 7473, it gives no details or dimensions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 20 by raye321

[ebinmaine 67,502]

7 hours ago, raye321 said:

ebinmaine, are any of the belts you pictured of that size?

 

The NOS Toro is .63

The new last year Wheelhorse belt is narrower at .60

Maybe I measured a thin spot just by luck. 

Maybe it's that width all around. 

 

I'm wondering if something on your tractor has been changed by a previous owner? 

Maybe a pulley size?

 

I too, have had to pull up & back on that idler bracket mounted guide. 

 

Your belt appears to be setting at about the right depth. 

 

Is there a decent parts store nearby you that has an ACTUAL belt measuring tool AND knows how to use it?

Not a tape measure. 

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,502]

Also, have you compared the new belt to the old one to verify the new belt was made right?

[raye321 8]

There is a pic of both belts on here. It's hard to tell because the original belt is so worn.

My Father bought the Raider in 1972, I don't think it was altered at all. 

endinmaine, is your idler bracket welded?

[ebinmaine 67,502]

24 minutes ago, raye321 said:

 

My Father bought the Raider in 1972, I don't think it was altered at all. 

 

That is very cool!

 

 

24 minutes ago, raye321 said:

endinmaine, is your idler bracket welded?

 

 

 

We've had quite a few Wheelhorses go through the shop in the last few years. I've never had an early 70s Raider or other manual transmission that I can recall although I have had late 60s. Quite a few 1973 and 1974. We have had welded ones for sure. But also most of them were bolted on so you could change the pivot angle. I do remember dealing with one that was welded.

I was able to take a large crescent wrench and bend the lip upward a little bit.