Marshy_Man 2 #1 Posted June 15 Hi all, I am doing a C-121 project restoration. I picked up an k301 off marketplace, I believe this engine was off a c120, not completely sure though. There are two light gauge white wires coming from behind the flywheel to the starter generator side of the block. I can't seem to locate these wires on my wiring diagram. Any ideas on what they might be? Thanks 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,163 #2 Posted June 15 Wires to the voltage regulator. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,050 #3 Posted June 15 They won't be in the tractor wire diagrams because they are part of the engine supplied be Kohler. The colors are not identified in the Kohler K-series service manual. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gasaholic 224 #4 Posted June 15 They are both white because they are both AC Voltage output from the stator , they go to a more modern regulator , if you are putting together an engine with a starter-generator then you won't need those wires. you could remove the stator and flywheel and swap out for an older flywheel without magnets , then you could probably sell the stator and flywheel for an extra hundred bucks or so. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy_Man 2 #5 Posted June 15 44 minutes ago, Gasaholic said: They are both white because they are both AC Voltage output from the stator , they go to a more modern regulator , if you are putting together an engine with a starter-generator then you won't need those wires. you could remove the stator and flywheel and swap out for an older flywheel without magnets , then you could probably sell the stator and flywheel for an extra hundred bucks or so. @Gasaholic Wow thanks for the info. If I put on a starter generator, can I keep this original flywheel and stator? Or would I need to get a flywheel without magnets? Thanks again Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 67,676 #6 Posted June 15 A C121 has the stator (alternator) under the flywheel. That's what those wires connect to. There is no Starter/Generator from Wheelhorse after about 1968. Ten years prior to your machine. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 67,676 #7 Posted June 15 Does your tractor have the original Voltage Regulator? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy_Man 2 #8 Posted June 15 23 minutes ago, ebinmaine said: Does your tractor have the original Voltage Regulator? @ebinmaine Yes it does have the original Voltage regulator. Not sure how well it works, if at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 67,676 #9 Posted June 15 Just now, Marshy_Man said: @ebinmaine Yes it does have the original Voltage regulator. Not sure how well it works, if at all. It's likely working fine. As much as I like the sound from an older starter... You'd be better off to rewire at original specs for several reasons. If you went to an S/G system there may not be room for the unit itself. Also, keeping the system as it was from the factory makes future repairs easier. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmaynard 15,518 #10 Posted June 15 (edited) The thing that you are overlooking is that the C-120 K301S is not the same engine as what is needed for a C-121. That takes a K-301AS with a smaller oil pan to fit down into the shaker cradle. Oil pans are not interchangeable between the K301S and the K301AS. A C-121 can have the cradle removed, but there are many other modifications that would have to be made to accommodate a K301S which include but are not limited to a different belt cover, different PTO engagement set-up, etc. Please think this project through before starting. Edited June 15 by rmaynard 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 67,676 #11 Posted June 15 Excellent catch! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy_Man 2 #12 Posted June 15 11 minutes ago, rmaynard said: The thing that you are overlooking is that the C-120 K301S is not the same engine as what is needed for a C-121. That takes a K-301AS with a smaller oil pan to fit down into the shaker cradle. Oil pans are not interchangeable between the K301S and the K301AS. A C-121 can have the cradle removed, but there are many other modifications that would have to be made to accommodate a K301S which include but are not limited to a different belt cover, different PTO engagement set-up, etc. Please think this project through before starting. @rmaynard Wow thanks for the heads up 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gasaholic 224 #13 Posted June 16 And as @rmaynard points out, yeah you may wish to check if your engine is actually gonna work in the tractor you have (I forgot about that - been too long since I worked with then daily.) however I know I have put other blocks into shaker cradle engines by swapping the oil pan - SOME blocks (Possibly newer in age) may accept either oil pan (Depends on if they have the drilled & tapped holes that line up properly) in which case you might be able to fit your old oil pan to the new engine - HOWEVER to do that you'd also have to tear down the engine and replace the connecting rod (Or, cutting a portion of the long dipper off the new engine's rod, which I've also done before to use an old stock Con Rod in a rebuild) So , as mentioned, swapping engines between shaker cradle tractors and solid mounted tractors may be an exercise you don't want to take on.. either way you go will present a set of problems you may have to take some time and money to solve. - Meanwhile, if you move forward with keeping the alternator and flywheel to connect to existing voltage regulator you have, you may wish to know how to wire things up - on your Voltage regulator there's 2 styles of terminal layouts - Two pins plus one on a separate row, and 3 pins in a line - With the 2+1 style the 2 pins in line side by side (like this: --- --- ) the 2 white wires go to either of those 2 pins and the third pin by itself is the 12V DC output to battery (Orange or Red wire) With the 3-in a line layout, the 2 white wires go to either of the OUTSIDE terminals with the 12V Output being the middle terminal. (I'd assume you have the original terminal connector and wiring to refer to, however, but just in case you lose track of that, you have this post to refer to) Otherwise if you did go and put a starter generator (You'd need the flywheel pulley and the starter-generator plus its own very different regulator, plus all the different brackets and re-wiring, which can get rather pricey if building from scratch) you CAN just leave the original alternator and flywheel just have to tuck the wires out of the way so they don't get tangled (and insulated from each other and ground so they don't short out and cause problems) But considering the value of them, well.... Besides which, if you go the starter-generator route your wheel horse will no longer be original (plus you may have to modify some other stuff like hood & fuel tank bracket, hood stand, and so on.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,163 #14 Posted June 16 I think if the engine your going to use has the 2 holes in the pan that the bolts screw into, you can yank the shaker cradle and bolt the engine to the frame. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy_Man 2 #15 Posted June 16 Thank you all for the information. It is very much appreciated. I will weigh my options and see what the best course of action would be. Thanks again all Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
