Gear-drive spindle parts.

[adsm08 2,046]

So I was going over my problem-child RM-367 trying to figure out why I am eating deck drive belts. The deck spins freely, but I have excessive (roughly 1/2 inch) up and down play in the left hand spindle.

 

I see in the parts explosion that this unit can come apart, but does anyone know of a source for the bearings and shims to rebuild it and get that slop out?

[ebinmaine 67,415]

@Handy Don

Any thoughts? 

[adsm08 2,046]

43 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

@Handy Don

Any thoughts? 

 

He just posted this info in another thread

[Handy Don 12,210]

When the you have all the right parts there should not be any vertical play in the spindles.

 

Things I’ve gleaned about these decks....

1. The dual belts MUST be to spec. If too tall, they will rub on the deck shell and the extra friction kills the belt and does other bad things.

2. The spindles across the years are different lengths. Shorter at first and then longer to accommodate thrust bearings. I’m pretty sure the blade cups are also different.

3. Horizontal play in the cross-shaft is bad. It’s noisy and the lack of solid engagement between the face and spindle gears causes wear or breakages of the spindle gear teeth. It is tedious as all get out to fix, but worth the effort. I used shims between the back of one cross-shaft gear and the step in the cross-shaft that positions the gear. I got a set of shims of varying width and correct ID. I think it took me three tries and yes, you have to do a lot of disassembly/reassembly for each try. Do NOT make them too tight--I left about .010 inch to allow for expansion when they warm up. And yes, this presumes that the cross-shaft is not locked into the inner races of the two cross-shaft bearings!

4. When you think there is too much grease under the hoods, add more grease--I added very thin gaskets under the gear hoods to keep the top of the deck a tiny bit cleaner. I use the green stuff ‘cause it’s really sticky and high temp resistant. Good grease and reduced friction keeps the temps down, but those gears still get quite warm.

5. I have on my list at the next overhaul to replace the roll pins in the blade cups since they have to engage the notches in the friction washer and mine are a bit worn.

[adsm08 2,046]

3 hours ago, Handy Don said:

When the you have all the right parts there should not be any vertical play in the spindles.

 

Things I’ve gleaned about these decks....

1. The dual belts MUST be to spec. If too tall, they will rub on the deck shell and the extra friction kills the belt and does other bad things.

2. The spindles across the years are different lengths. Shorter at first and then longer to accommodate thrust bearings. I’m pretty sure the blade cups are also different.

3. Horizontal play in the cross-shaft is bad. It’s noisy and the lack of solid engagement between the face and spindle gears causes wear or breakages of the spindle gear teeth. It is tedious as all get out to fix, but worth the effort. I used shims between the back of one cross-shaft gear and the step in the cross-shaft that positions the gear. I got a set of shims of varying width and correct ID. I think it took me three tries and yes, you have to do a lot of disassembly/reassembly for each try. Do NOT make them too tight--I left about .010 inch to allow for expansion when they warm up. And yes, this presumes that the cross-shaft is not locked into the inner races of the two cross-shaft bearings!

4. When you think there is too much grease under the hoods, add more grease--I added very thin gaskets under the gear hoods to keep the top of the deck a tiny bit cleaner. I use the green stuff ‘cause it’s really sticky and high temp resistant. Good grease and reduced friction keeps the temps down, but those gears still get quite warm.

5. I have on my list at the next overhaul to replace the roll pins in the blade cups since they have to engage the notches in the friction washer and mine are a bit worn.

 

My dual belts are in good shape. I think I may have robbed them off the 32" deck I destroyed 2 years ago.

 

The spindle length changes is good to know about.

 

I don't have any horizontal play that I know of, but I can't remember if I checked that last night or not. I know I have never checked the back-lash.

 

I am due to grease it again, I usually do that every few weeks during mowing season, and use half a tube of grease each time. I'll pop the covers off at the begining and give it all a good coat, then do the zerks, then through the season I do the zerks and then just pop the tube off of them and shoot a few squeezes right onto the gear faces. I usually use the red stuff.

 

[Handy Don 12,210]

3 hours ago, adsm08 said:

I don't have any horizontal play that I know of, but I can't remember if I checked that last night or not. I know I have never checked the back-lash.

This is hard to work out because the cross-shaft is pretty snug in the bearings. But it WILL move laterally under load from the gears/blades. I broke down and put some grease on it so I could slide it by tapping a wood block with a hammer. As long as the bearings turn easier than the shafts in the races, it’ll be fine (my story; sticking to it). I needed a gear puller to pull the cross-shaft gears off the shaft, of course; I used a long pipe clamp to press the gears back on.  

[adsm08 2,046]

2 hours ago, Handy Don said:

This is hard to work out because the cross-shaft is pretty snug in the bearings. But it WILL move laterally under load from the gears/blades. I broke down and put some grease on it so I could slide it by tapping a wood block with a hammer. As long as the bearings turn easier than the shafts in the races, it’ll be fine (my story; sticking to it). I needed a gear puller to pull the cross-shaft gears off the shaft, of course; I used a long pipe clamp to press the gears back on.  

 

Bearing removal is my specialty. When I quit my last job and moved down here where I am now I owned a couple vehicles with press-fit wheel bearings, so I went out and bought basically anything you could ever want for doing them, figuring that if I did two the stuff had paid for itself.

[adsm08 2,046]

So I got the spindle assembly all tore down. On the side with the vertical play one of the washers was not recovered. I'm not sure if it was there and fell out and I can't find it, or if it wasn't there, but I have spares. Additionally the Torrington bearing was split, again I have spares, and the lower needle bearing had failed. So bearings and seals are on order, but won't be here for a week or so.

 

I went to put a 32 inch deck together just to have something, and found I only have one cross shaft. The broken one.

[squonk 41,067]

What I have found mostly over the years is the support bearings fail. They aren't greaseable unless you tear everything down. The bearings start to seize. Then either the outer race will spin in the aluminum support heat up and expand the support so the bearing will be able to move in and out somewhat. Or the bearing will lock up and the inner race will wear into the cross shaft. When this happens the whole cross shaft can move side to side making a banging noise as the gears crash into each other

[adsm08 2,046]

8 minutes ago, squonk said:

What I have found mostly over the years is the support bearings fail. They aren't greaseable unless you tear everything down. The bearings start to seize. Then either the outer race will spin in the aluminum support heat up and expand the support so the bearing will be able to move in and out somewhat. Or the bearing will lock up and the inner race will wear into the cross shaft. When this happens the whole cross shaft can move side to side making a banging noise as the gears crash into each other

 

Fun times.

 

I'm undecided on how I'm going to deal with the support bearings. I have a new set, already in supports, on the broken cross-shaft, or I'm sure I'll be able to find a set at the Show and have them in my hands before I have the rest of the stuff to start putting it back together.

[76c12091520h 3,615]

5 hours ago, adsm08 said:

 

Fun times.

 

I'm undecided on how I'm going to deal with the support bearings. I have a new set, already in supports, on the broken cross-shaft, or I'm sure I'll be able to find a set at the Show and have them in my hands before I have the rest of the stuff to start putting it back together.

If you bring part #'s I have most of this stuff in stock if you're still in need.....

[adsm08 2,046]

10 hours ago, 76c12091520h said:

If you bring part #'s I have most of this stuff in stock if you're still in need.....

 

 

I'll try to get those numbers around. I usually stop in to see you and your dad anyway.

[adsm08 2,046]

The new spindle bearings showed up last night. I found a socket that is about a millimeter smaller than the bearings and pressed the old ones right out, new ones went right in, tapped in the seals, took about an hour overall. All the up and down play is out of everything, put about half a tub of heavy-duty grease on everything, then greased it again with the gun once it was all together.

 

Took some 60-grit and roughed up the pulley on the engine because it was polished to a mirror finish, which I think was not helping my slipping issues, but I haven't gotten the deck back on yet, and at this rate I won't need to mow for a while.

[Handy Don 12,210]

1 hour ago, adsm08 said:

a socket that is about a millimeter smaller than the bearings

I don’t have anywhere near the tool assortment that would let me do that.

The tool @ri702bill made has two cross arms that limit the depth so I could set the bearings and the seals to their correct depths without guessing.

 

[adsm08 2,046]

17 hours ago, Handy Don said:

I don’t have anywhere near the tool assortment that would let me do that.

The tool @ri702bill made has two cross arms that limit the depth so I could set the bearings and the seals to their correct depths without guessing.

 

 

The socket in question was a Snap-On chrome 19mm 3/8 drive.

 

I'll admit that the depth setting was a bit Kentucky Windage, but I had some nice witness marks for the lower ones and the uppers just sat flush. Flush is an easy depth to set.

[Handy Don 12,210]

40 minutes ago, adsm08 said:

Snap-On chrome 19mm 3/8 drive

Now your gonna make me dig out the tool and my 19mm Craftsman and compare