855 6 speed swap

[horseman with no horse 26]

i bought a nice resealed 6 speed 10 pinion a few months ago, i would like to swap it out for my original 4 pinion 3 speed because it leaks terribly and the hubs are severely wore. ive also been running it pulley swapped with a big kohler v twin at 20 plus mph for a few months. the 3 speed was already pretty rough when i got it a couple years back. another thing i would like to address is bushing the frame, where the clutch sits in the frame under the seat pan, and where the lower steering shaft sits above the front axle in the front of the frame.

[ri702bill 8,322]

Nice... A 6 speed swap is a bit easier than an 8 speed swap. @Handy Don did a 6 speed swap on his 854, I did an 8 speed swap on mine.

Six speed has the same size input shaft & pulley as a 4 speed the 69" drive belt stays the same; the brake drum & band are the same - no need to fabricate linkage. An 8 speed changes all that. You need to holesaw an opening for the Hi-Lo lever in the sheetmetal....

Bushings - I did several on the last 502.Flanged bushings for the clutch shaft, added a bushing in the upper portion of the lower block, added a bushing to the lower shaft - I do have a machine shop on site here... I undercut a shallow slot into the frame bushings to hold grease... added grease grooves in the steering shaft.

Front axle bushings - done those too...

 

 

[Pullstart 62,884]

6 hours ago, horseman with no horse said:

ive also been running it pulley swapped with a big kohler v twin at 20 plus mph for a few months.

[Handy Don 12,232]

7 hours ago, horseman with no horse said:

i bought a nice resealed 6 speed 10 pinion a few months ago, ....  pulley swapped with a big kohler v twin at 20 plus mph for a few months. the 3 speed was already pretty rough 

The 6-speed’s 10-pinion differential may not handle high speed as well as the 4-pinion in the 3-speed. The 10 pinions “float” within the diff housing where the 4 pinions (and 8-pinions in 8-speeds) are shaft mounted. When traveling fast and dead straight, there probably won’t be any issue, but on curves I’d expect greater internal wear--especially if you have a 5060 with aluminum endplates on the differential.

I am intrigued by the idea that with the pulley swapping the low range becomes more like the high range and the high range becomes “rocket."

 

[ri702bill 8,322]

6 hours ago, Handy Don said:

the low range becomes more like the high range and the high range becomes “rocket."

And you still have to rely on that one poor brake friction band to stop - unless your drag you feet, but then you have to say "Yabba-dabba-doo"...

Edited June 3 by ri702bill

[horseman with no horse 26]

those brake drums have served me terrifyingly well. i can lock em up and leave a faint tire mark on the pavement.  i normally dont use breaks , i just float into neutral. i can get pics soon.

[horseman with no horse 26]

so other than cutting the sheet metal on the frame to make space for the hi/lo shifter, the 6 speed would pretty much drop in? also i have the trans sitting next to me in my apartment lol.  how would i check to see if its a 5060? as far as busing the frame goes how would i get the old bushings out? i was thinking about filing the old ones out and smacking in new ones. ive completely redone my steering minus the bushing in the dash (the nylon plastic one) and of course the ones in the frame itself. the clutch is pretty wore though as has to be addressed soon, i cant tell if it was even bushed in the first place.

[Pullstart 62,884]

Yes, it should be pretty straightforward when you tear into it.  

[ri702bill 8,322]

24 minutes ago, horseman with no horse said:

as far as busing the frame goes how would i get the old bushings out?

You will discover that the frame has NO bushings for the clutch shaft... metal on metal, and NO good way to lubricate it...

 

The much later lower steering block comes with a non standard paper thin bushing for the lower shaft.

 

NOTE - DO check the condition of the "F" plate on the frame where the Unidrive bolts on - all too often cracked & damaged...

 

Edited June 3 by ri702bill

[horseman with no horse 26]

3 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

You will discover that the frame has NO bushings for the clutch shaft... metal on metal, and NO good way to lubricate it...

how would i go about bushing the frame then? mine is so bad when i rev my engine the clutch rises and the belt gets wider like a torq converter

[ri702bill 8,322]

I did mine - inline - in a milling machine as pictured. There are folks that have opened up the frame holes with a tapered reamer. If your thru holes are all egg-shaped elongated, that may not be possible - good chance they would not end up truly inline......

[Tractorhead 9,064]

4 hours ago, ri702bill said:

And you still have to rely on that one poor brake friction band to stop - unless you drag you feet, but then you have to say "Yabba-dabba-doo"...

You can exchange the friction band brake with a hydraulic disc brake from Quadbike or GoCart parts.

I would prefer best with a separate pedal for easier dosing of the Brake or maybe a spring loaded action.

 

i thinker about that each time when i ride the downhill to the next Valley to dump with higher Trailer Load.

😎😇😇

but til now the friction brake can still handle it.

[horseman with no horse 26]

15 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

I did mine - inline - in a milling machine as pictured. There are folks that have opened up the frame holes with a tapered reamer. If your thru holes are all egg-shaped elongated, that may not be possible - good chance they would not end up truly inline......

im very unequipped to mill the frame sadly. what do you think my best option is?

[ri702bill 8,322]

Michigan should have a bunch of qualified Machine Shops to choose from. Other WH hobbyist in the area with the capability?? Won't be free, but asking is...

[horseman with no horse 26]

im gonna call up some shops tomorrow, for now heres some pictures and a video of the sad clutch on my speed horse that ive dubbed "ruby"

Edited June 3 by horseman with no horse

[horseman with no horse 26]

[Handy Don 12,232]

4 hours ago, horseman with no horse said:

so other than cutting the sheet metal on the frame to make space for the hi/lo shifter, the 6 speed would pretty much drop in?

Yes. but be aware that the hi/lo lever attaches with a roll pin to which access is pretty tight and all but impossible once the fender support pan is in place. Plan ahead. (I had the hoodstand/tunnel off to do the hole cut and it was helpful to leave it loose until the transaxle was fully in place and the levers on.)

 

4 hours ago, horseman with no horse said:

how would i check to see if its a 5060?

I don’t think there is a way to identify the 5060 vs. the later version (5071) with the steel endplates without opening it up.

Edited June 3 by Handy Don

[adsm08 2,060]

Please do a detailed write up with plenty of pictures.

 

I have a 6-speed I'm wanting to drop in my 855, I just don't have the down-time for it to figure things out.

[Handy Don 12,232]

1 hour ago, adsm08 said:

Please do a detailed write up with plenty of pictures.

 

I have a 6-speed I'm wanting to drop in my 855, I just don't have the down-time for it to figure things out.

I’ll have the 854 at the Big Show. I’ll have a white pop-up canopy somewhere on the infield. Stop by and give it a look!

What would strike me right off is that the tunnel, rear fender, and hoodstand changed from ’64 to ’65.

Edited June 4 by Handy Don

[horseman with no horse 26]

14 hours ago, Handy Don said:

 

What would strike me right off is that the tunnel, rear fender, and hoodstand changed from ’64 to ’65.

this was my biggest concern going into this project

[adsm08 2,060]

19 hours ago, Handy Don said:

I’ll have the 854 at the Big Show. I’ll have a white pop-up canopy somewhere on the infield. Stop by and give it a look!

What would strike me right off is that the tunnel, rear fender, and hoodstand changed from ’64 to ’65.

 

 

I'll try to stop in and look. My other big concern with this swap is that I have the add-on hydraulic lift and I'm almost certain that the position of the pump is going to  interfere with the high-low shifter.

[Handy Don 12,232]

22 minutes ago, adsm08 said:

I'll try to stop in and look. My other big concern with this swap is that I have the add-on hydraulic lift and I'm almost certain that the position of the pump is going to  interfere with the high-low shifter.

Good point. I think, though, that shortening the lever to fit under the pump might be possible. Not as convenient to shift, of course!

[adsm08 2,060]

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

Good point. I think, though, that shortening the lever to fit under the pump might be possible. Not as convenient to shift, of course!

I'd thought of modifying the shifter so that it was not in the way. Just one more thing to work out. One more reason to find a second mowing machine.

[Handy Don 12,232]

Here’s how the shifters fit in the 854.

I wasn’t thinking about lever clearances at the dash/hoodstand end so I’ll get another picture today that includes that!

(Don’t mind the charger, I figured I’d give the battery some juice while I was working on the seat since I haven’t had it out running for a spell.)

Edited June 5 by Handy Don

[squonk 41,118]

Better get a bigger gas tank. a 12HP Kohler empties the stock tank pretty quick!