857 - 5053 stuck in 2nd gear

[Bach-Ed 170]

While out mowing today I wanted to change gears to first from second.  As I needed to get near some obstructions.  I threw in the clutch/brake but found the trans would not move out of gear.  Any guesses as to what went wrong?   and fix suggestions would be appreciated.

[953 nut 55,734]

Take a look at this thread. Probably the "Dogpoint Screw" came out of adjustment.

 

[Bach-Ed 170]

Well, I pulled the set screw and was able to slide the gears (2nd & 3rd) back and forth.  So, I reinstalled the shifter.   Now I can shift right and left.  But not front to rear to get to 1st and rev.   Is that set screw setting super fussy or ??????

[stevasaurus 22,841]

Pull the shifter again and see if you can move the other fork from side to side...the fork for 1st and reverse.  Make sure that both forks are in neutral when you put the shifter back in.  Use a long screwdriver to move the forks between neutral and all of the gears,  You could jack up the back end and move the forks between all gears and check out the gear box that way while running thee horse.  Let us know what you find  

[953 nut 55,734]

4 hours ago, Bach-Ed said:

 Is that set screw setting super fussy

Tighten the dogpoint until the shifter is hard to move (donut pinched in opening) then back it off slightly where the shifter well move smoothly but no play.

[Bach-Ed 170]

Ok, I'm afraid bad news.  The forward pair of forks (r and #1 I assume) can move side to side but the other moves slightly but not like the front pair.  Will I need to drop the trans and split it?

[stevasaurus 22,841]

The front fork is your 1st and reverse and (in the picture) that fork is in neutral.  The rear fork is in gear, but I can't tell which one.  You are saying you can't move that rear fork??  When your trans is in neutral, those forks will look like the picture in Post #2.  If you can't move that rear fork, I think you will have to drop and split the trans.  

   With a #5053 trans, you should not be able to shift the 1st/reverse fork when either 2nd or 3rd is in gear.  The 2nd/3rd fork has to be in neutral before you can shift into either 1st or reverse.  The new style shift rails along with the longer stop prevents being in 2 gears and the same time.  That being said, there is not much it can be...a roll pin holding the fork to the shift rail or some wrong with the detent system (broken spring, missing detent ball, broken stop).  I'm sure your trans is fixable for not much money.  I am in Elgin if by chance you need a good 3 speed trans that will bolt right in.  I have a couple of spares.  Take good pictures.

 

Edited May 25 by stevasaurus

[squonk 41,291]

Try jogging your axles whilst you try to move the stuck fork. Might take an extra person.

[Bach-Ed 170]

Squonk, I tried rolling the tractor back and forth (I removed the drive belt).  But to no avail.

Stevasaurus I'll get a gasket set and open her up.   I'll let you know what I find. 

 

[Bach-Ed 170]

Well, I finally got the transmission opened.  I didn't see much wrong but after some digging, I found i was missing a shift ball.   Of course I might have lost it during disassembly?   But I ran a magnet down the hole and came up with this curl of metal.  It appears to be off the end of the spring.  Now I wonder if that piece of broken spring jambed the shifter fork?

As we all like pictures I added the pictures of forks but they seem ok.

[squonk 41,291]

How long have you owned this tractor? Sounds like someone  was in it before and lost a ball. They don't disappear all by themselves. The balls not only lock into the fork detents but keep the spring out of harms way. You may need to get a complete transmission just to get the right spring. 

[Bach-Ed 170]

I've had it over 10 years.  A new tranny to get a spring sounds like a lot but you guys have more experience than I.  I was going to try McMaster for springs.

 

[stevasaurus 22,841]

If you have both detent balls...great.  If not, they are 1/4" steel balls and are available at ACE hardware.  While there, see if they have a spring that will work.  I once had one of those springs that got bent on the end.  I was able to bend it straight and pulled it apart a bit (stretched).  It is still working great.  See if a spring from a fountain pen will work ??  

   I would not doubt that someone here has one of those springs that they would send you.

Edited July 4 by stevasaurus

[squonk 41,291]

You can probably get a spring from McMaster. The key is the tension. Too weak and it may not hold in gear. Too stiff and it will be hard to shift. Measure the wire diameter carefully. You can probably get one in the ball park. check everything else inside the trans before you button it up. Those bearings have been in there a long time. 

[Bach-Ed 170]

Well, the fun continues.   Here are some pictures.  The first three are with it in neutral, does it look like I have all the gears in the right places?   

[stevasaurus 22,841]

That is how it is supposed to look.  Well done !!!  You should be able to shift the gears and turn the input shaft by hand...watch the axles turn.    Did you find a detend spring ??

[Bach-Ed 170]

I did find a spring but I'm still not getting a low/reverse shift.  When in neutral the shifter fork doesn't really shift but it is "bouncy" when you push down.   I'm going to tear it apart again and try it without spring and balls.  just to verify it shifts properly.  not a permanent solution but it would be nice to know I can get it into low/reverse.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,090]

Spring item # 34

https://www.partstree.com/models/857-toro-lawn-tractor-1967/parts-list-for-5053-transmission-0/

[Bach-Ed 170]

And I used a number of my naughty words trying to hold in the ball against the spring while trying to insert the fork

[Bach-Ed 170]

OH and I was surprised the hole in the case to put the spring/balls isn't plugged after assembly

 

[stevasaurus 22,841]

You probably already know this, but between the two shift rails, that channel should have a detent ball the spring with the stop insde and the other detent ball...ie.  ball-spring with stop-ball.  Things to look for...use a pencil magnet to make sure the shift rail holes are free of any gear drift...detent balls, broken spring parts, etc.  It should take some force to shift the rails between gears...you can feel the shift is right when the pieces are in the right place.  Use a 1/8" allen wrench from the outside hole in the case to hold the detend ball in place while placing the shift rail.  I am thinking the detent ball slipped down under the rail and the spring is trying to do the work.  When you get it correct, a little dab of bathroom silacone in the hole in the case is all you need.  

   You can call me if you want to talk.  I will PM you my phone number.  

[squonk 41,291]

32 minutes ago, Bach-Ed said:

And I used a number of my naughty words trying to hold in the ball against the spring while trying to insert the fork

Read and watch videos;

 

 

 

 

[Bach-Ed 170]

I will watch the videos tonight

[Bach-Ed 170]

Well, I think it is whipped!   The shifter forks both move properly and gears spin.  Of course, I won't know until the gasket gets here and I button it up.  If I still worked in a machine shop I'd chamfer the bottom of the shifter shaft so it would go past the ball easier.

Thank you all

Edited July 8 by Bach-Ed

[lee@soundmind.studio 2]

I'm rebuilding an 8-speed, and broke the detent spring the first time assembling the shifter mechanisms.  I went out and procured a spring that was probably about .010" too large in diameter and got it assembled.  Case halves together and full of gear lube.  I spun everything around and it works great, except...  that spring is too large in diameter and it wont let the balls move with the shifter.  It was tight going together, but it thought (hoped) that I would be able to loosen everything up once I got gear lube on everything.  Thanks to this forum for helping me to locate the proper spring.  Case halves coming apart.  The grand kids will be happy when its done!