Modern Day HL-5 Lights

[DBlackston 298]

I have an 854 and a 704 that I am wanting to put some HL-5 lights on. 

 

I can make the bracketry and run the wiring with no issue. However, I'm a bit of a cheap guy and don't want to buy the original style lights. I may wait to see if I can find a good deal on some of the originals. 

 

In the meantime, I wonder how LEDs work with the starter generator on the 854? Would the lights work at all on a 704, if so how would one wire that?

 

These are the lights and switches I had looked at.

 

Fronts: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08THVNFCS/?coliid=I1I2E8I8W4UVFX&colid=30WBJOBLIVMNW&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it

 

Rear:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0055DQH4U/?coliid=I19R7MNCQYIIKF&colid=30WBJOBLIVMNW&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it

 

Switch: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001FQOGS0/?coliid=I1BIBC3JZXIPWL&colid=30WBJOBLIVMNW&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it

[ebinmaine 67,766]

I can't speak for any of the above numbers... Trina has two mid 60s S/G tractors with led lights. Both work fine. 

 

The lights are on a separate circuit directly off the battery. 

 

[wallfish 17,023]

You would need to add a battery to a 704 and keep it charged.

[Pullstart 62,945]

LED lights have a much smaller amp draw than standard bulbs.  Your 854 would likely thank you for the light load.  

[J854D 137]

8 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

 

The lights are on a separate circuit directly off the battery. 

 

@DBlackston, @ebinmaine, on your 854 or any S/G system, I recommend picking up the power for your lights or any accessory from the “L”/load terminal on the voltage regulator. This terminal has 12 volts constantly and when a load is applied to it, it helps the generator and regulator better compensate for that electrical load while the tractor is running and the lights/load are on. Just a tip to improve your charging system. -JD-

Edited May 21 by J854D

[ebinmaine 67,766]

3 minutes ago, J854D said:

@DBlackston, @ebinmaine, on your 854 or any S/G system, I recommend picking up the power for your lights or any accessory from the “L”/load terminal on the voltage regulator. This terminal has 12 volts constantly and when a load is applied to it, it helps the generator and regulator better compensate for that electrical load while the tractor is running and the lights/load are on. Just a tip to improve your charging system. -JD-

 

 

Couldn't do that on Trina's ..  because they were flashing. The LED lights we have are apparently capable of adjusting voltage and brightness faster than the system of the tractor.

Steady battery voltage was no problem.

[J854D 137]

2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

 

Couldn't do that on Trina's ..  because they were flashing. The LED lights we have are apparently capable of adjusting voltage and brightness faster than the system of the tractor.

Steady battery voltage was no problem.

That is an interesting characteristic of LED lights that I wasn’t aware of! My experiences have been with standard incandescent & halogen bulbs. The things we learn as we mix old equipment with modern technology! -JD-

[kpinnc 12,174]

2 hours ago, J854D said:

That is an interesting characteristic of LED lights that I wasn’t aware of! 

 

A solid ground will remedy most flickering. Usually a ground jumper between the frame and hood is sufficient. 

 

I have LEDs in all my machines, and none flicker. My 867, Bronco 14, and both Classic series. 

 

 

[wallfish 17,023]

5 hours ago, J854D said:

The things we learn as we mix old equipment with modern technology! -JD-

Absolutely, still learning everyday. ( trying to keep Alzheimer's at bay) Old men and technology don't mix very well and the same thing for change, even if it's better. Got to force myself to try and understand current things and technology or else it's getting left behind.

The LEDs are the difference between night and day compared to those old school 1156 bulbs.

[kpinnc 12,174]

18 minutes ago, wallfish said:

The LEDs are the difference between night and day compared to those old school 1156 bulbs.

 

Yes they are, and about 1/4 of the load on your rectifier. And they last tens of thousands of hours. 

[RGK 7]

I put a cheap set of LED’s on my 856. Wired directly to the original light switch. They work perfectly. They are small and I think they go well with the tractor.

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,352]

8 hours ago, RGK said:

I put a cheap set of LED’s on my 856. They are small and I think they go well with the tractor.

Were the housings red? Or did you paint them? 
 

 

[RGK 7]

I painted them. They were black.

[peter lena 8,653]

@DBlackston  very easy to battery wire in a BATERY TENDER , have one one on each of my 3 horses , simple plug in connection . pete

[DBlackston 298]

@peter lena I just bought a Noco Genius 10 to charge my batteries.

 

I considered getting one of these to install in my 854 and also one for my Cub Cadet ZT1 54".

 

What kind of battery tender are you running?

 

I need to get better at wiring and just rewire my whole 854. 

[ebinmaine 67,766]

4 hours ago, DBlackston said:

I need to get better at wiring and just rewire my whole 854.

 

Sooooooo many people get all freaked out by 12V systems. 

Wiring is really not at all complex when broken down to individual circuits. 

 

That's a great tractor to start with. Just a few wires. Very simple circuits. No safety switches. 

 

Get GOOD wire and GOOD tools like crimpers. 

I use 7 conductor trailer wires but I'm not building restoration pieces so the color has to be different from each other,  not original correct to the machine. 

 

[peter lena 8,653]

@DBlackston  get the small regular  single  green light  , BATTERY TENDER , brand , walmart  has good prices , found most important part of that IS ACCESSABILITY , look at photos' on related site below , last picture , battery tender plug in is right there , isn,t that what you want ? easy access . also note the added battery cable from battery ground , to engine / corner frame , enhances lighting , and related electrical , connections , like lights! ,  often said that behind dash area is a GOLD MINE FOR IMPROVEMENT !  note added washers , lube to PTO LEVER START ! BTY have that same set up on my 3 horses , once I find a cure , its easy to adapt that to another horse . regularly use anything that I  have changed , it just works better ,  might also add bolt on ELECTRICAL LUGS , for any wire start point , very solid , and holds numerous wires ,  good luck . pete

 

[Handy Don 12,281]

11 hours ago, DBlackston said:

I need to get better at wiring and just rewire my whole 854. 

As @ebinmaine notes, this is very straightforward on the tractors of this era.

 

There are wiring diagrams in the files for the 854 -- the original version without a solenoid in the starter circuit and an updated version with the solenoid plus accessories like lighting and a voltmeter. Download and look ‘em over and come back with questions.

 

I’ll note that you’ll often hear shade tree mechanic suggestions to go with heavier gauge wire than the factory used. That isn’t necessary. Give the WH and Kohler and Delco engineers credit for sizing it right in the first place and follow their specs. But do use quality copper wire--"copper coated” is not a good choice.

 

What is critically important is that the terminations and connections be electrically solid and clean and that you use stranded wire so that it can flex without breaking.

 

Good luck!

Edited May 30 by Handy Don

[ebinmaine 67,766]

2 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

But do use quality copper wire--"copper coated” is not a good choice.

 

Agreed. 

 

"CCA" maybe on the package. Depending who you ask, that stands for copper clad aluminum or copper coated aluminum. Either way I don't use it. 100% copper. Preferably fine strand.

[DBlackston 298]

Thanks for all the replies! I'll tackle this project when I get a chance and think I will add a tender and some lights!

[peter lena 8,653]

@DBlackston  https://www.google.com/search?q=bolt+on+electrical+lugs%2C+1%2F2"+++&sca_esv=361416631b2a74db&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS866US866&ei=B99ZZvG_G8vR5NoP9IuTyAU&ved=0ahUKEwix352bjbiGAxXLKFkFHfTFBFkQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=bolt+on+electrical+lugs%2C+1%2F2"+++&gs_lp , use this to extend battery cable grounding to , engine/ frame area , and from that spot to engine cooling tins , especially up by carb , electrical rectifier mounting , insuring flow to related lights . test / verify as you go , check fuses also , pete 

[Handy Don 12,281]

11 hours ago, DBlackston said:

Thanks for all the replies! I'll tackle this project when I get a chance and think I will add a tender and some lights!

With apologies, I neglected to mention also that the electrical system relies on good grounding as the “return” path for the power coming from the battery to run the engine or accessories and for successful battery charging.

On WH tractors like the 854, that means the starter/generator and its mount must be well grounded to the engine (through the mounting frame), the points well grounded to the engine block, any lights wired to a solid ground, and the battery negative terminal well grounded to the engine block. If you have doubts, you can use a volt-ohm meter to check. Ask if need any extra info.

In general, a tractor with a good battery that gets run regularly will not need a battery tender, though a quality tender will not hurt. Note that I have discarded at least three “bargain" tenders--one stopped working at all, and two applied too high a voltage.

[ebinmaine 67,766]

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

well grounded

 

@DBlackston

 

 

Having a good ground connection is just as important as choosing decent wires and components and doing good work while building the circuits.

 

Over the last several years I've gotten into the habit of adding extra ground wires or ground straps on all the tractors we build or repair.