314 Will not engage starter

[rwmastel 47]

Went to start my 1999 314-6 today and no bueno.  Ran when parked several days ago.  The voltmeter (which is ALWAYS showing a reading, is that right?) shows 13v until I turn the key to any other position than off, at which point it maxes out.  I turn the key to start, and I get nothing.  I pulled all 4 fuses, and they looked fine.  I cleaned the connection for the positive battery terminal, it had some build up.  I opened the side where the fan and the ignition coil (?) are and that wire to the coil looked fine (often chewed by mice, but not this time).  I'm not an electrical troubleshooting genius, not even basic.  I tried searching the forums, but there are a wide variety of models and a wide variety of starting problems that I couldn't find anything easily.  I know there are safety switches, so I had both feet on the pedals, the mower deck raised, and the other lever pulled back (disengage mower blades).  What troubleshooting process should I follow.  I do have a multi meter, but don't assume anything about me having skills!  

[Pullstart 62,882]

 

Start with having your battery load tested.  Also, verify your ground wires are clean and in good contact.

[953 nut 55,229]

7 hours ago, rmasteller said:

The voltmeter (which is ALWAYS showing a reading, is that right?) shows 13v until I turn the key to any other position than off, at which point it maxes out

Just can't trust the old voltmeter, it probably isn't reliable any more. Checking the fuses and cleaning the holders was a good first step. Also, cleaning a battery connection was a good first step but ALL of the battery cable connections need to be cleaned and tightened. You might want to remove the battery and have it load tested at an auto parts store to be sure it is good.

Your 1999 model has a bunch of safety switches and relays, it looks a bit intimidating but they probably are NOT the problem. Get out your multimeter and set it to the lowest resistance setting, remove the fuses one at a time and check them to be sure they are good. the 30 amp and 10 amp fuses are both in the flow path for the starter.

If the battery tests good and fuses test OK and all terminals on the battery cables are cleaned and tightened then move to your starter solenoid. It has two small wires going to it, one is brown and the other is orange (could be black wire with a small colored marking on them). Place your multimeter in 30 Volts DC, attach the common (black lead) to your battery "-" terminal and the red lead to the orange wire of the solenoid. Now sit in the seat, PTO off, transmission in neutral, foot all the way down on the clutch and turn the key to start, multimeter should show 12 volts. Let us know what you are seeing.

The manual below has a page that shows the starter wiring on your tractor, don't be intimidated by all the switches and relays, they seldom go bad and are going to become test points if needed. The problem is probably very simple and we will get you going.

 

 

[Pullstart 62,882]

I believe based on year, that should be a Magnum Kohler engine.  It does not need anything powered other than the starter itself.  There should be a large wire from the battery straight to the starter.  The small wire will trigger the solenoid to engage the starter.  That’s where we are looking for power when we turn the key.

[rwmastel 47]

Thanks for the fast replies, everyone!  Yes, it is a Kohler engine.  I'll get on it tonight after work.  It has been starting just fine all season.

Edited May 20 by rwmastel

[Ed Kennell 38,176]

All great advice above.         I take a different approach when I have a tractor that will not attempt to start.

I create a temporary starting circuit by connecting a  jumper  to the small post of the solenoid then connect the other end to the battery positive post.     If the starter engages and turns the engine over, I know the battery, the solenoid, and starter are OK.         Then I use the multimeter to determine where the normal starting circuit is interrupted.   Fuses, fuse holders, ignition switch, seat switch, pto switch ,neutral,  switch,  and 10 feet of possible broken or chafed grounded wiring or bad connections.

[rwmastel 47]

 

 

8 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

I create a temporary starting circuit by connecting a jumper to the small post of the solenoid then connect the other end to the battery positive post.

How does one go about making a jumper?  I need what gage wire?  I need proper connectors so I can tighten it down just like the regular wire, right?

[953 nut 55,229]

10 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

All great advice above.         I take a different approach when I have a tractor that will not attempt to start.

I create a temporary starting circuit by connecting a  jumper  to the small post of the solenoid then connect the other end to the battery positive post.     If the starter engages and turns the engine over, I know the battery, the solenoid, and starter are OK.         Then I use the multimeter to determine where the normal starting circuit is interrupted.   Fuses, fuse holders, ignition switch, seat switch, pto switch ,neutral,  switch,  and 10 feet of possible broken or chafed grounded wiring or bad connections.

 

11 hours ago, Pullstart said:

I believe based on year, that should be a Magnum Kohler engine.  It does not need anything powered other than the starter itself.  There should be a large wire from the battery straight to the starter.  The small wire will trigger the solenoid to engage the starter.  That’s where we are looking for power when we turn the key.

Ed and Kevin, this is a 1999 Wheel Horse and has the Kohler Command engine with a kill relay that must be energized to complete the solenoid start signal.

 

[953 nut 55,229]

1 hour ago, rmasteller said:

 

 

How does one go about making a jumper?  I need what gage wire?  I need proper connectors so I can tighten it down just like the regular wire, right?

You can use any light gauge wire like an old lamp cord for testing. Just wrap the ends around the terminal to be tested or buy come aligator clips.

[rwmastel 47]

I've been working late all week on a project in the office.  (New servers to build & config in the data center!)  I will finally get back to working on my own problems tonight.  Specifically, Wheelhorse problems, there are others that can wait!

 

I should have some alligator clips in my electronics junk drawer, and hopefully some wire thick enough to prevent a meltdown situation.

Edited May 23 by rwmastel

[Ed Kennell 38,176]

1 hour ago, rmasteller said:

I should have some alligator clips in my electronics junk drawer, and hopefully some wire thick enough to prevent a meltdown situation.

Small test leads should be OK to supply 12v to the solenoid trigger.  If you want to supply 12v directly to the starter, it is best to use a regular car jumper cable.

[rwmastel 47]

Well, I got the lawn mowed!  Before, I had disconnected the positive battery cable from the batter and did my best effort cleaning.  This time, I removed that cable completely (both ends) and was able to really clean it.  Put it back on and it started up.  So, simple things first!

Edited May 24 by rwmastel

[rwmastel 47]

For my own education, what is the component that I question in this pic?  Is it the Starter Solenoid?  I made a jumper, but didn't know where to put it.

 

You can tell the main cable is clean!

 

Edited May 24 by rwmastel

[RubyCon1 63]

4 hours ago, rwmastel said:

 Starter Solenoid? 

Yes indeed, it is a starter solenoid.

[953 nut 55,229]

6 hours ago, rwmastel said:

Is it the Starter Solenoid? 

Yes it is.

[Ed Kennell 38,176]

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=ed9b9c3974b299a3JmltdHM9MTcxNjUwODgwMCZpZ3VpZD0yNmQ1ZTdjYi1kYWU5LTZkYjAtMjAyOC1mMzRjZGI3MDZjNzYmaW5zaWQ9NjIxMA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=26d5e7cb-dae9-6db0-2028-f34cdb706c76&psq=solenoid+def&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubWVycmlhbS13ZWJzdGVyLmNvbS9kaWN0aW9uYXJ5L3NvbGVub2lk&ntb=1

[rwmastel 47]

OK everybody, WARNING!  Very, very long post!

 

TLDR (Too Long, Didn't Read) = I'm pretty sure I have a bad solenoid.

 

I'm updating this thread because I'm back at a Starter Not Engaging situation again.  The tractor started fine several times after getting the + battery cable ends cleaned up.  But, like an idiot I messed with it all again.  I started another thread on a missing PTO lever spring, and I decided to replace it, which meant tearing down the whole dashboard/console area.  This meant pulling out the battery, steering column, and instrument panel, thereby disconnecting all the electrics there: three warning lights, the ignition key switch, hours meter, voltmeter, and PTO position sensor switch.  When reconnecting everything electrical, I used a little wire brush and contact cleaner.  I cleaned out the old mouse condos (lots of grass and 4 old, dried carcasses, and snap traps got 2 live ones this week) and tried to clean everything in general.  Some damage to wire insulation!  But I don't think to the actual wires, so I wrapped them up with black electrical tape.  With the whole apparatus rebuilt, it won't turn the starter.  

 

I took the electrical diagram and a multimeter to the shed and gathered some facts.  I'm not good with electrical troubleshooting, so please bear with me.  First, everything is dirty, so each wire needs a little cleaning to see the color.  I'm red/green color blind so seeing the colors doesn't always matter.  Finally, the diagram is a logical layout.  I don't know where all the switches, relays, etc. are physically located on the tractor or what they look like.  I'm learning, though.  With that said, here's what I found.
- 12.7v across battery terminals
- 12.7v at + battery cable input to solenoid with key in any position
- 00.0v at + output from solenoid (headed to starter) with key in any position
- 00.0v at brown wire output terminal from solenoid to kill relay(?) with key in any position
- 00.0v at orange wire output terminal from solenoid to ? with key in any position
- 12.7v at both sides of 30a fuse with key in any position
- 12.7v at both sides of 25a fuse with key in Lights, Run positions, and 0.0v in Start position
- 12.7v at both sides of 10a fuse One(?) with key in Lights, Run positions, 0.0v in Start position
- 12.7v at both sides of 10a fuse Two(?) with key in Lights position, 0.0v in Run, Start positions

 

From your previous recommendations in this thread, here are my comments, findings, and/or test results.

 

Start with having your battery load tested.
- Easy enough.  I'm working from home tomorrow, so I'll take it in on my lunch hour for testing.

 

Verify your ground wires are clean and in good contact.
- How do I know I found them all?  The connection of the - battery cable down near the starter is easy.  And another wire comes from that connector so I can trace that.  But how can I find them all?

 

Get out your multimeter and set it to the lowest resistance setting, remove the fuses one at a time and check them to be sure they are good. The 30 amp and 10 amp fuses are both in the flow path for the starter.
- The multimeter's lowest setting is 200ohms and all the fuses show 0.8 - 1.0 reading.  Bad?  I'll buy new fuses when I get the battery load tested.

 

Now move to your starter solenoid. It has two small wires going to it, one is brown and the other is orange. Place your multimeter in 30 Volts DC, attach the common (black lead) to your battery "-" terminal and the red lead to the orange wire of the solenoid. Now sit in the seat, PTO off, transmission in neutral, foot all the way down on the clutch and turn the key to start, multimeter should show 12 volts. Let us know what you are seeing.
- I found a pair of multimeter alligator clip ends last night!  Electronics junk drawer is paying off lately.  Negative battery to orange wire post (can't get actual wire) shows 0.0v in any key position.

 

I believe based on year, that should be a Magnum Kohler engine.  It does not need anything powered other than the starter itself.  There should be a large wire from the battery straight to the starter.  The small wire will trigger the solenoid to engage the starter.  That’s where we are looking for power when we turn the key.
- The + battery cable goes to a large connector on the solenoid.  From another large connector, another large red + battery cable connects from the solenoid to the starter.  A small brown wire and a small orange wire come out of small terminals lower down on the solenoid.

 

I create a temporary starting circuit by connecting a jumper to the small post of the solenoid then connect the other end to the battery positive post.  If the starter engages and turns the engine over, I know the battery, the solenoid, and starter are OK.  Then I use the multimeter to determine where the normal starting circuit is interrupted.   Fuses, fuse holders, ignition switch, seat switch, PTO switch, neutral switch, and 10 feet of possible broken or chafed grounded wiring or bad connections.
- The small post??  I have two small posts on the bottom of the solenoid.
- Regarding potential for bad wiring, mice chewing wires is always a valid concern in my shed!  They've destroyed the wire between the coil and the voltage regulator(?) several times.  The fan area is a favorite winter nesting spot.  They started getting into the wire bundle below the battery, and I'm hoping that's not bad enough to be a problem at this point.
- I jumped the + battery terminal to the orange wire terminal on the solenoid.  The starter engages in Lights, Run, Start key positions.

What does this mean?  Above it says jumping this proves solenoid is good, but I don't see how.  Do I need a ew solenoid?

 

 

Side question:  My wiring diagram shows a NMIR module.  It took a bit of Forum Searching to find that it stands for No Mowing In Reverse.  Is this pic the NMIR module (right below the starter solenoid)?  I have "Reverse Mowing Selected" and "PTO Clutch" lights on the dash, but I've never seen them light up.  I have always been able to mow in reverse (owned tractor 7 years).  Mine must be faulty or disabled.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 6 by rwmastel
Organize pics to text

[953 nut 55,229]

11 hours ago, rwmastel said:

I believe based on year, that should be a Magnum Kohler engine.  It does not need anything powered other than the starter itself.  There should be a large wire from the battery straight to the starter.  The small wire will trigger the solenoid to engage the starter.  That’s where we are looking for power when we turn the key

1997 was the last year for the Magnum engine, Your 1999 has a Kohler Command engine and the wiring is not the same,

11 hours ago, rwmastel said:

Do I need a ew solenoid?

I doubt that the solenoid went bad but lets test it. With the key OFF connect a small jumper wire from the small terminal with the brown wire to ground, this will simulate the kill relay being activated. Now connect a second small jumper wire to the small terminal that has an orange wire  and touch the other end of this jumper to the battery cable that goes to the battery "+" terminal. This should close the solenoid and turn the starter. If the starter turns over the solenoid is good.

12 hours ago, rwmastel said:

The tractor started fine several times after getting the + battery cable ends cleaned up.

 

12 hours ago, rwmastel said:

 With the whole apparatus rebuilt, it won't turn the starter.

When a new problem comes up it is frequently related to the last thing done prior to the problem.  The engine started before and it will start again. I would suggest checking all of the wiring connections (PTP Switch etc.) that were taken apart and being sure they are connected properly.

[rwmastel 47]

@953 nut  Thanks for the detailed solenoid test & explanation!!  I'll do that this morning between meetings.

 

Jumping the solenoid worked.  Don't have to buy one of those, and I don't think I need the battery load tested today.

 

Now, how do I test this PTO switch without disassembling the whole dash console?

 

Looking at the wiring diagram, where will I find:

- Seat switch (Inside the seat, or under it on the tilt-up frame?)

- Park switch (What is this? I have a manual transmission, there is no "park".)

- Neutral switch (I assume I need to remove the mower deck get under the mower to see the shift lever/linkage?)

- Reverse switch (Same assumption as Neutral switch.)

- Override switch (No idea.)

 

What about relays?  How do we test those?  They're just basically switches that are triggered by a contact being energized (+ current) instead of physical pressure, right?

Edited June 6 by rwmastel
Update

[rwmastel 47]

1 hour ago, rwmastel said:

- Park switch (What is this? I have a manual transmission, there is no "park".)

Oh, on a car with a manual transmission you always set the parking brake, so there must be a switch for that brake.  I seldom use that brake, only if I get off the tractor with it running.  So, this would be the third switch that needs to be found underneath along with Neutral and Reverse.

[953 nut 55,229]

2 hours ago, rwmastel said:

@953 nut  Thanks for the detailed solenoid test & explanation!!  I'll do that this morning between meetings.

 

Jumping the solenoid worked.  Don't have to buy one of those,  and I don't think I need the battery load tested today.

 

Now, how do I test this PTO switch without disassembling the whole dash console?

You should be able to access the PTO switch by removing the battery. The PTO switch is a two part switch and the push-on connectors are interchangeable. You should be able to observe the movement of the switch arms as the PTO lever is moved. Perhaps you will have to clean the connector and switch contacts and be sure they are seated tightly on the switches. Since the tractor started before I doubt that anything has to be replaced. The two switches on the PTO are identical so it won't matter if they were not placed on the same switch where they had been as long as they are making good contact. 

 

Looking at the wiring diagram, where will I find:The

- Seat switch (Inside the seat, or under it on the tilt-up frame?)  I do not own this model but there is probably an insert in the seat itself that will have a two wire connector coming from the seat. Testing it is very easy, unplug the connector, connect the leads of a multimeter set to lowest resistance setting on the two prongs of the seat side of the connector. It should read open with out a load on the seat and read closed when you put pressure on the seat bottom. All you will see is the black two wire lead with the connector, the rest is in the seat.

- Park switch (What is this? I have a manual transmission, there is no "park".)

- Reverse switch (Same assumption as Neutral switch.)

- Override switch (No idea.)    These are all related to the No Mow in Reverse system and will not interfere with the strater.

Neutral switch (I assume I need to remove the mower deck get under the mower to see the shift lever/linkage?)This is the same type switch as the two PTO switches and is mounted beneath the cover plate over your shift levers. May want to move the shift lever around a bit to make sure the switch is being activated, just a simple little switch arm making contact with the shift lever.

What about relays?  How do we test those?  They're just basically switches that are triggered by a contact being energized (+ current) instead of physical pressure, right?     That is correct, it is highly unlikely that a relay has failed.

 

[rwmastel 47]

Thanks for all these great details!  You're very patient.

 

Yes, the switch is there.  I thought it was under the metal plate, down by the PTO spring that I replaced, but I was mistaken. 

 

I cleaned it before when I was in there to replace the spring, but I will do it again. 

I'll try to test continuity in the switch with MM set to ohms.

 

Will report back very soon. 

Edited June 6 by rwmastel

[rwmastel 47]

@953 nut

 

Remember, I'm a total novice with electrical jargon and troubleshooting.  I don't understand some of what you wrote about the PTO switch.  Maybe it's because different models use different switches?  My 1999 314-8 is a 73449 model.

 

"The PTO switch is a two part switch and the push-on connectors are interchangeable."

- There's only one pressure input to the switch (seen in this pic on left side of switch) but there are 3 wires.  What is "two part" about it?

 

 

- On this model, the wires come into the switch on one common molded connector, so they can't be interchanged.

 

 

"You should be able to observe the movement of the switch arms as the PTO lever is moved."

- Arms plural?

"The two switches on the PTO ..."

- Two switches?

 

 

The only testing I did was to see if continuity in the switch changed when moving the PTO lever.  With the MM connected to the two outer connectors, continuity would sound off/on as I moved the lever.  If I connected to the center connector and ether the left or the right, no change - no continuity sound.  Looking at the wiring diagram, it shows 3 wires, pink, grey, white.  I have two white.  I wonder, is this part of the modification to defeat NMIR since the diagram shows white heading towards that system??  Also, I can't tell which is pink and which is grey, because the redness in the pink doesn't show up for me.  Which connector is pink?

 

 

Edited June 6 by rwmastel

[rwmastel 47]

Regarding the gray, pink, white (and extra white) wires, when looking at the wiring diagram of the PTO switch (top left in image), it seems my continuity test shows a failed switch, right?

 

If I connect to 1 pink and 2 grey, moving the lever should alter continuity.

If I connect to 1 pink and 3 white, moving the lever should alter continuity.

if I connect to 2 grey and 3 white, moving the lever should do nothing.

 

What color is the middle wire in the post above?  When connecting to that, and to either of the other two, I got nothing.  That's not right.  2 out of 3 possible combinations should work, regardless of wire colors!  I only got 1 out of 3 to work.

Edited June 6 by rwmastel

[rwmastel 47]

I went back to the shed to look under the seat at that sensor and test.  I found more stuff disabled!  Someone understood this electrical system very well.  Seat sensor not connected. Key Choice for reverse mowing disabled through re-wiring.