The ballad of Sir Wally the RJ58

[OoPEZoO 521]

Its gonna be a ballad.....because he's been neglected, needs quite a bit of attention, and I'm assuming its going to take me just about forever to get him rolling again.  I don't know much about RJ's other than I always thought they looked great and I wanted to pick one up at some point.  So this is very much a learning experience for me trying to research what is original, and what has been modified on it.  That being said, I'm committed and in it for the long haul.  He has been hacked up just enough that I don't feel obligated to keep him 100% original, but will do my best to keep from making any permanent modifications.  A few links to get everyone up to speed.  

 

Sir Wally was dropped at Ed's house by a friendly neighbor 

 

Ed decided he had too many projects, but decided to do the hard part of disassembling him.  Once again....THANK YOU Ed!!.  It made picking him up easier, and also meant that I could immediately start to assess what he needed instead of getting shoved to the back of the garage waiting for a rainy weekend.

Here is how he looked when I picked him up

 

I had a little free time last week, so I decided to tear into the Briggs motor that was included.  It was in rough shape, but I believe I can make it run again.  I'm not sure if it will end up back on Sir Wally, but it was/is something fun to tinker with.  I currently have it all torn down, case split, and trying to figure out if I want to try replacing the rings as I have no idea on the actual identification of the motor.  Here is that adventure

 

The next step I thought should be the transmission.  My thought process here was that if the transmission was completely shot, I might as well cut my losses and part him out.  As luck would have it, the transmission spun freely, shifted into all the gears, and didn't appear to be sloppy.  I also wanted to get on it ASAP due to the big show looming and it being the best chance of sourcing transmission parts if I need them.......AND it turns out that I do.  So here we go, I wanted to put it all here so I can document things as best I can.

 

The transmission.  It has no casting marks next to the shifter, so I believe that makes it an "early" 58 5003?

I started off by swearing at this roll pin for the clutch/brake for about 4 hours......broke a few punches, but eventually got it out

 

I also had to work on the rear hitch quite a bit, as it was rusted solid in place.  That took some heat, AeroKroil, and patience, but I got it out.  The side bolts all came out easily and all of the threaded bosses are still intact, so that's a bright spot.  Popped the side cover and got met with the wonderful combo of water and milkshake

 

I turned it over and let it drain over night to get as much gunk out as possible

 

It was pretty nasty, but I was initially encouraged that I didn't see any obvious damage.  That changed once I get things completely torn down an cleaned up

 

You can see the axle wear/scoring in the pic above.  They could possibly be flipped, drilled, and reused, but It may be a smarter decision to source replacements.  There are a few chipped teeth on the axle gears you can see in the pic above as well.  There are a few broken off, and a few more with cracks that look ready to break off

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ed Kennell 38,134]

Wow, amazing work Keith. I am sure glad to see Wally in such capable hands.    Sorry, I was hoping the tranny was in better condition.

[OoPEZoO 521]

I also saw a little damage on the spider gears.  I think these are "OK", but through researching it appears I can replace all 4 with newer ones for a reasonable price.  I'll probably go that route, but not sure yet

 

The brass bushings/bearings in the side plates and center hub are all shot.  The outer ones are severely scored, and the inner ones are worn all the way to the carrier

 

Of course, the worst of the damage is on the bull gear and mushroom gear.  I don't think I could bring myself to put this back in a transmission unless it was going to be stationary the rest of its life

 

The bull gear has a bunch of weird wear on it as well.  It almost looks as it was "repaired" at one time by someone who can't weld and then ground down.  There is a lot porosity in the teeth, along with what looks like poor penatration and undercut.  This is the only one I've ever looked at, so I have nothing to compare other than pictures.

 

 

It still looks like it may be usable, but I have this idea bouncing around in my head that this "repaired" bull gear is what tore up the mushroom gear so much.  Hard to say, and I will never get any proof either way.  So that's where I'm at currently.  Still assessing and looking at what my options are to get this transmission back together.....and that is the desired result.  I think it is definitely in good enough shape and worth a rebuild, especially since its not on a timeline.

 

 

 

[OoPEZoO 521]

10 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

Wow, amazing work Keith. I am sure glad to see Wally in such capable hands.    Sorry, I was hoping the tranny was in better condition.

 

No worries, I knew what I was potentially getting myself into.  I was looking for a project.....mission accomplished 

[953 nut 55,188]

If you haven't done so you might want to look at this thread from @stevasaurus.

 

[OoPEZoO 521]

Thanks....I've read that 4-5 times in the past week, plus a few others.  It was great being able to tear into this thing and not being surprised by anything.  That was only possible because of the people who took the time to document the work they have done on these transmissions in the past and I'm very grateful for having access to that info.  All of the pics and videos posted in the past have been fantastic.  I'm currently trying to collect all possible part numbers and combinations of parts that I can find that will work together,  Then make a plan of action

[Lane Ranger 10,968]

OoPEZoO
 

when you get the list of gears you need for your redo I know two Red Square members you should check with.   Jake Kuhn in South Haven , Michigan and Keith Jones in  Sunbury, Ohio.

 

 

Ratpack on EBay makes RJ parts ( or at least he did). For new axles, spindles, etc.

 

 

i have redone four or five of these RJ transmissions with new bearings, bushings and oil seals.   Wheel horse parts and more sells the RJ rebuild kit and the transmission side plate paper gaskets.

 

i have had two of those RJ transmission cases with no date code.   I like to think that those were RJ’s Mr pond gave to new dealers to sign up to be a Wheel Horse dealer .

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,717]

Excellent project !!  In looking at the pictures, I would try to find the newer style mushroom gear (11/44 tooth) and the coresponding differentiial gear that goes with that.  Your trans will thank you and run much better.  Those parts interchange.

   I would also change out the spyder gears in the differential...get the ones that fit the 5025 trans.  I (without looking at the above thread) think they are 11 teeth spyders.  They fit fine as long as you replace all 4.  

Edited May 7 by stevasaurus

[OoPEZoO 521]

Thanks to both of you…..I’ve read through both of your rebuild threads, watched your videos, and learned just enough to pretend I might know something. Wheel Horse parts and more was already on my list. I haven’t given the side plate bearings a good look yet, but at a glance, they look clean and un damaged. Either way, I will pull them and check them out individually once I get my next few minutes of free time.  Of course, looking at the condition of the rest of the tranny, I should probably just toss the original bearings in the trash and pony up for the whole rebuild kit.  
 

I’m assuming Jake is Jake’s small engines?  I’ve seen him have a ton of good used parts for sale over the years. I’m not familiar with Keith or Ratpack. I do see a guy currently selling reproduction axles and heat shields for RJ’s right now.  Goes by the name Johnisawesome69.  I think that’s my only option that makes sense for axles.  New repros are about the same cost as “ok” used ones. This thing will only ever be babied after this, but I don’t want to open it again. I appreciate all the advice, please keep it up.  Gonna be quiet for a few days with work and crazy kids sports schedules. 

[Achto 27,565]

 Jumping in for the ride. Looking forward to this girl coming back to life.

[Pullstart 62,834]

Thanks for saving this one!  

[oliver2-44 9,731]

On 5/6/2024 at 12:24 PM, OoPEZoO said:

 

You can see the axle wear/scoring in the pic above.  They could possibly be flipped, drilled, and reused, but It may be a smarter decision to source replacements.  T

 

Clean up the other end of those axles.  Give them a little polish and they are very usable.  I've flipped 3 sets. 

[Handy Don 12,212]

[OoPEZoO 521]

Its Friday, and pouring down rain.....so, tractor time.  I've been off and on figuring out what I need this week, and at least nailed down what I have here and what can stay and go.  This is my current situation

 

3530	25T Axle Gears - Mine are shot.  Too many broken/cracked teeth to consider putting back in.  Replacements look relatively easy to get
3502	31T Diff Case/gear - Mine is pretty chewed up and I want to replace it
3559	8/44T Brake shaft - VERY worn on the 8T side and needs to be replaced
3532	Axle - After cleaning up, I do think they look good enough to flip, drill, and reuse.  Going to give that a try.  It I don't like the outcome, I'm going to get reproduction axles
3531	12T Spider gears - These look "ok"  There are some marks on them and a little material missing, but think they should be ok if I get decent axle gear replacements

 

I'm hoping to source the newer 7243 differential gear with 3559B brake shaft gear, but they don't seem readily available right now.  Gotta go beat the bushes a little and see what I can dig up.

 

It looks like at some point, someone did some welding to the end of these axles, so I need to clean that up first.  Then I'll fixture them up and give a go at drilling them.

 

 

Think I'm going to head out to the shop and do that now.  Then maybe start setting up the E-tank to try clean up those side plates.

 

 

 

[OoPEZoO 521]

First side plate is in the wash......bubble bubble bubble

 

Using a few old mower blades as anodes and an old laptop charging brick as a supply.  The brick is rated for 20V @8.5A.  Its getting toasty 

 

 

 

[OoPEZoO 521]

Parts are slowly starting to come out of the E-tank and getting cleaned up as time allows.  I have one side plate clean  (you can see it in the top left of the pic below).  I love the E-tank for cleaning old rusty parts.  I tried for a bit to remove the bearings, but wasn't getting anywhere.  I decided I should order a blind hole bearing puller instead of screwing around with rigging something up, so that's on the side burner for a few days.

I also made a change to my E-tank yesterday.  You can see from the pic above that I was using some old mower blades as the sacrificial anodes and the orange sludge is disgusting.....as are the mower blades when I pulled them to scrape the rust off.  I had read that graphite rods work better as the anodes as they are highly conductive and won't leave a sludgy mess.  So I bought a set off the jungle site and rejigged the E-tank to get the mower blades out and graphite rods in.  This is the result after a few hours.  Bubbling like crazy, yet still nice and clean.  I should have dumped the tank and started with a fresh solution, but I was being lazy and reused what was in there.  I'm very curious to get out there at some point today and see how things went overnight and see what the graphite rods look like.  I have read that they will deteriorate like any sacrificial anode, but at a much slower rate.  I guess time will tell.

 

Edited May 20 by OoPEZoO

[OoPEZoO 521]

Good news, bad news........the graphite rods appear to be working excellent as far as removing rust and crud.  The bad news, they are almost completely gone in less than 24hrs.  Looks like I'll be going back to lawn mower blades and/or scrap steel.  The rods were not "expensive", but I won't be buying more.  If you have a cheap supply of graphite, I would say this is the way to go, but I'm not about to drop a bunch of cash on something labeled as sacrificial.  I'm going to milk it as long as I can, and then I'll take some pics as I tear it apart to go back to steel.

[kpinnc 12,005]

Usually the orange sludge is from something being galvanized. 

 

Still works, but yeah it's messy. 

[OoPEZoO 521]

I've been slowly putzing around with this in between more kid's activities that I can keep straight, but finally feel like I'm making some headway.  As of this weekend, I am done with all of the sloppy/greasy stuff and I'm only left rusty stuff.  I like the rusty stuff, its much easier to fiddle with for an hour or so in the evening without getting all slopped up.  Plus, now that I'm done with the greasy parts, I could clean out my parts washer and refill with clean solution.  The E-tank has been bubbling away a few parts at a time.  I do have some flash rust on a few pieces I pulled out and let sit, but nothing that 3-4mins with a wire brush won't fix before a quick wipe down and primer.  I'm hoping to set a day aside here soon and do just that.   

 

First off.....I'm assuming this is some homemade bracket and NOT a WH part?  I don't see it on any parts diagrams and it looks rather cobbled together.  I have no idea where it came from off the tractor.

 

I picked up a blind hole bearing puller set from Amazon and had mixed results.  Some came out easy, some did not.

 

The one above was the worst offender.  I tried everything I could, but it wouldn't budge.  I finally gave up and drilled a hole through the plate on the back side and punched it out.  It had a lot of rust on the back side that was holding it tight.  I'll just back the hole with some copper and fill it with the MIG welder before I start reassembly.  Overall, the side plates cleaned up pretty nice.  It bugs me that those bearings seat tight against the side plates.  You can see the wear from the inner races spinning against the plate.  On reassembly, and if I have the clearance, I may put some thrust washers in there or maybe just relieve some metal with a die grinder to give the replacement bearing inner races come clearance.

 

Slowly collecting some more derusted parts.  I still have some work to do on that slot hitch.  I fear the pin is frozen solid in the tube.  I haven't decided yet, but I may just cut it off with the band saw and weld a new tube on it. 

 

The main housing cleaned up nice as well.  There is one threaded tab that appears to have broken off, but already has a reasonable repair done to it.  Going to leave that alone and move on

 

I did see this wear on the inside of the housing.  I guess this is what happens when all of your bearings and bushings wear out and you wait too long to fix it.  Everything gets so sloppy, that the main diff gear starts eating into the case.  I believe that explains the damage I saw in the rest of the transmission.  I'm sure it added a ton of drag and accelerated the wear on the other parts.

 

As you can see, it was easy finding the "thin" spot on the brass bushings.  3/4 of them were worn all the way through to the steel housing

 

Cleaned up some more nuts/bolts/washers since my parts washer is no longer a disgusting mess.  I'm not sure where those long bolts belong.  They may be part of the mounting linkage for the RM 3261 32" deck that was on the tractor.  I have the parts diagram for it, but haven't got that far.  

 

Same with this guy.  I don't see it on the parts diagram for the tractor, but it looks like a factory made part.  I'm assuming its part of the deck, but would gladly listen if anyone recognizes what it is

 

I should be getting a care package in the mail today from Jake that includes all the replacement parts I need, along with new bearings, bushings, gaskets, and seals.  It would have been cheaper to buy an already rebuilt transmission, but then I would still have this one sitting on the shelf and I know I would end up rebuilding it at some point anyway.  So that's all for now.  I have more parts in the E-tank that I can pull out anytime.  I'll probably get to that tomorrow, go through the parts that Jake sent me, and then maybe consider some primer and reassembly soon.  Then I can move on to the frame and body work.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 3 by OoPEZoO

[OoPEZoO 521]

Speaking of the RM 3261 deck.  I'm still not sure what I want to do with it.  At this point, I haven't touched it other than to confirm that all once moving parts on it no longer move.  It appears to all be there and in salvageable shape, but even if I cleaned it up and rebuilt it, I would never use it.  I don't even think I would ever put it back on the tractor.  It might just have to get listed as trade bait for the big show and try offset the purchase of Wally and his tranny rebuild

 

I'm open to thoughts or opinions on what you think I should do with it

 

 

 

[OoPEZoO 521]

Oh yeah.....one other thing.  Before buying replacement axles, I decided to try and drill these so I could flip and reuse them.  If anyone ever had reservations about it, just go ahead and do it.  It was very easy.  The shafts are not hardened, and it took longer to fixture up the drill press than it did to drill the new holes.  Line it up, shoot a little cutting fluid on it, and the bit went right through the axle.

 

If you look at the earlier pics of the axles, I first had to grind off the sloppy welds on the end of the axles.  I'm assuming a previous owner attempted to weld the end of the axles to the hubs, but did a pretty crappy job of it.  I hit the shafts with some emery cloth and they cleaned up nicely.  I really need to get a small metal lathe at some point.  It would make all of this stuff a lot easier.

[Ed Kennell 38,134]

Lookin good Keith.   Pretty sure this was an adapter for the slot hitch.

I don't remember the other part.   There were no loose parts though, so it must have been bolted on someplace.

 

 

[OoPEZoO 521]

Ahh....that would make sense.  I'll bet you are right about it being a hitch adapter.

 

As far as the other part.  The frame has a height adjust bracket on it, but all of the ones I've seen have been bolted onto the frame and are removable.  This guy has his welded on, so it very well could be part of a home brew height adjustment system.  I don't see the mystery part anywhere on the tractor or deck part diagrams, so that's my best guess right now.  When I get to the frame, I will most likely remove that welded on adjustment bracket anyway......so eh, it will work itself out one way or another.

[OoPEZoO 521]

Ahh ha!!!!  I just went back and looked at your original pics.  Look at the left side of the pic, just above the slot hitch.  I'll bet that's the mystery piece.  It looks like some sort of support bracket that attached to the hitch.  Cool, so its scrap metal.  One less thing to clean and paint.

 

BTW....the "set screws" on this hub were hilarious.  Those suckers must have been 5" long and completely encased in crud.

[Pullstart 62,834]

On 6/3/2024 at 10:55 AM, OoPEZoO said:

Speaking of the RM 3261 deck.  I'm still not sure what I want to do with it.  At this point, I haven't touched it other than to confirm that all once moving parts on it no longer move.  It appears to all be there and in salvageable shape, but even if I cleaned it up and rebuilt it, I would never use it.  I don't even think I would ever put it back on the tractor.  It might just have to get listed as trade bait for the big show and try offset the purchase of Wally and his tranny rebuild

 

I'm open to thoughts or opinions on what you think I should do with it

 

 

 

 @Abby Normal Garage