Grass 2 feet tall an the Horse don’t wanna eat!

[Horse46 519]

Hey folks of the red square, it’s been a while since my last confession, but I’ve neglected my poor old horse and it’s biting back. 

Anyway, I’ve tried the search tool and I can’t find anything that seems similar to my issue-issue's, yes I’ve more than one. 

So it all started when I didn’t put it away last winter, I know my bad, rusty parts aside I’ve had it running, oh forgot to say, it’s a C161 So, cut to the chase, problem 1 the starter solenoid is just clicking, battery fully charged and was working fine yesterday.  Problem 2 the (new) starter motor throws the gear out to the flywheel and jams. Problem 3 if I could get it going when it runs after about ten minutes it starts to cough, blows a bit of black smoke and carries on till the next cough. 
it’s one sick pony, can any of you gurus shed a little light?

TIA

[SylvanLakeWH 25,560]

Clean carb, fuel lines and tank...

Check all connections and grounds.

Load test battery. Verify it's "good".

 

[Horse46 519]

Carb stripped and cleaned when I changed the float bowl seal, new fuel filter fitted last season, battery new this year and was firing strong all day yesterday while I was troubleshooting, put on charger last night and charged fine, engine turned over once but then the starrer stuck, solenoid would only click afterwards. 

[Fordiesel69 263]

Grounds?  The C161 should be a rubber mount, and those loose their grounds quite often.  Best to run a neg cable from battery to starter mounting bolt.  

 

 

[Ed Kennell 38,177]

1 hour ago, Horse46 said:

 Problem 2 the (new) starter motor throws the gear out to the flywheel and jams

Does it have the correct number of teeth?

[squonk 41,118]

43 minutes ago, Fordiesel69 said:

Grounds?  The C161 should be a rubber mount, and those loose their grounds quite often.  Best to run a neg cable from battery to starter mounting bolt.  

 

 

Yup Separate ground cables on the cradle

[Horse46 519]

36 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

Does it have the correct number of teeth?

It works 90% of time, just lately it’s started jamming, I’ve removed and lubed the moving parts but made no difference. 

[Horse46 519]

9 minutes ago, squonk said:

Yup Separate ground cables on the cradle

I’ve had issues with grounds in the past and have run new earth cable's, including from the shaker to the chassis., I’ll run another to the starter bolt. 

[Achto 27,577]

1 hour ago, Horse46 said:

engine turned over once but then the starrer stuck, solenoid would only click afterwards. 

 

Chances are that your starter gear is jammed against the flywheel. Try turning the engine by hand to get it to disengage. Lube the worm gear on the starter drive with some dry graphite. Liquid lube picks up dust and can also damage the rubber clutch on the drive.

[oliver2-44 9,752]

18 minutes ago, Achto said:

 

. Lube the worm gear on the starter drive with some dry graphite. Liquid lube picks up dust and can also damage the rubber clutch on the drive.

 

When the center bushing is worn it can cause jamming

[oliver2-44 9,752]

1 hour ago, Horse46 said:

Carb stripped and cleaned when I changed the float bowl seal, new fuel filter fitted last season, battery new this year and was firing strong all day yesterday while I was troubleshooting, put on charger last night and charged fine, engine turned over once but then the starrer stuck, solenoid would only click afterwards. 

Do I read this as work done last year?  Then carb set all winter possible with non ethanol fuel.  Carb probable needs cleaned again.  Drop the fuel bowl and see what it looks like!

[953 nut 55,230]

[Horse46 519]

12 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

Do I read this as work done last year?  Then carb set all winter possible with non ethanol fuel.  Carb probable needs cleaned again.  Drop the fuel bowl and see what it looks like!

No, I cleaned it last weekend as the bowl was leaking, which I thought was maybe the cause of the occasional coughing ( lack of fuel)

[Horse46 519]

12 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

 

When the center bushing is worn it can cause jamming

I fitted a new starter last year. 

[953 nut 55,230]

Sometimes the mounting bracket on a new starter isn't bent "JUST RITE" and a shim or two is needed to keeep the bendix gear from binding.

[Horse46 519]

17 hours ago, 953 nut said:

Sometimes the mounting bracket on a new starter isn't bent "JUST RITE" and a shim or two is needed to keeep the bendix gear from binding.

I did think about something along those lines but thought no, maybe I’ll revisit this, thanks. 

[Horse46 519]

I’m in work for 3 more days but at my first opportunity I’m going to go through all the above again and see if we can’t solve the problem. 
stand by. 

[Horse46 519]

Update:  I’ve gone through all the grounds, some were rusty so I cleaned them up, battery is good, I’ve used it on another mower with no issues. The solenoid just clicks, only once, so I’m going to replace it so I can rule it out, if it were clicking then I would agree that maybe the battery was faulty. 
I’ll update again when it’s fitted. 
I spent 5 hours last week cutting the lawn with my walk behind, I can’t keep doing that so fingers crossed. 

[953 nut 55,230]

36 minutes ago, Horse46 said:

The solenoid just clicks, only once, so I’m going to replace it

Gie it a test before you go out spending money. use a small piece of wire to temporarily connect the battery "+" terminal to the small terminal on the solenoid, this should cause the solenoid to close and the starter to turn over. If not, the solenoid is probably the problem.

[Horse46 519]

On 5/6/2024 at 6:52 PM, 953 nut said:

Gie it a test before you go out spending money. use a small piece of wire to temporarily connect the battery "+" terminal to the small terminal on the solenoid, this should cause the solenoid to close and the starter to turn over. If not, the solenoid is probably the problem.

I’ve done a lot of googling and watched many YouTube tutorials as electrical isn’t my strong point. I’ve bought a new solenoid and it’s the same so that was a waste of money, the only thing I haven’t done is check for continuity on the positive side of things, I’ll have to borrow a multimeter from my mate, I really don’t know what else it could be if it not this. 

[Horse46 519]

Update 

I got my mate over with his multi meter to check all my wires, everything checked out which left us at the starter motor, now as I’ve said already it was new last season. Because everything else has been checked I pulled the starter to replace it with an old one just to rule it out, to my surprise the old one worked, armed with this info I checked the new one and it was seized???? On inspection I found that a magnet had come loose and was crushed up inside. The battery is on charge tonight and I’ve made up one good motor from the three I had, fingers crossed. 

[Horse46 519]

Well my head has been banging against the wall with this one, fresh battery fitted then just a click from the solenoid!!!! 
went and bought a new battery ( I needed another for my other mower) anyway long story short, I ran another ground from the the starter motor and hey presto it turned over, tried again to get the fuel through and fired up woop woop, relieved and hungry I went in for dinner, back out I go to tune it up and the old starter motor has given up ( maybe that’s why I changed it, not just the end gear?? 
Now who’s got a lead on a starter, most eBay vendors say not compatible, bear in mind I’m in the Uk, anyone know of a good source?

[Wayne0 457]

Look in the Jungle.

[Ed Kennell 38,177]

I've had good luck with several starters from DB Electrical.

[Horse46 519]

Result- thanks everyone for your support, I’m a home mechanic at best but I’m up and running because of your help, so a pat on the back all round 👍🏻

I fitted a new battery, new solenoid, new filter and plug, a new starter and a new carburettor, quite the shopping spree, anyway I needed a new starter and the carb was a mix n match from my other parts but the rest probably didn’t need to be replaced, an extra ground off the starter I think was the problem solver, a good bit of frustration and experience to be taken away from this, but I’m rolling and cutting grass again. 
This year end she gets put into shelter, lesson learned. 
Thanks again 

Mike.