Resurrecting a 414-8

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,315]

  Not restoring this one, but would like to hear it run and then decide how to proceed with bringing this machine back into service. 
  Bought it for $100 not knowing the condition of the motor. I figured the muffler, or the 4 matching wheels and tires, or the 8 speed trans were worth the price of admission. 
  Gave it a good pressure wash this morning, then rolled it into the garage. Engine oil was low but clean, trans oil was full and clean (shifter boot is in perfect shape). Under the engine tins was…A MOUSE HOUSE … I was expecting that. Coil wire has been gnawed on but can be saved. Popped off the carb and the head.

  Thoughts on either? Carb has rust on the throat, but the bowl was clean and the needle was moving freely. Head has a lot of carbon. I do t know how to read what I I’m seeing so if someone can give me a “status” on the head, valves and standard piston that would be great. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[Cody 276]

Looks like it has a lot of potential!! Carb looks fine id soak it in some parts cleaner for a bit and rebuild it. I don't see anything concerning with the head or piston, I would clean it up and put it back together. I think it'll make you a great tractor and what a score for $100!

[wallfish 16,994]

[squonk 41,067]

14 minutes ago, Sparky said:

  Under the engine tins was…A MOUSE HOUSE … I was expecting that. Coil wire has been gnawed on but can be saved. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

Mice seem to like magnum coil wires. 2 years ago at our steam show there was a 10 yr. old kid on a beat to snot 312 bombing back and forth. Parks it across the way from my canopy and goes to eat. Comes back and it won't start. Wears down the battery. Now it starts to rain  He askes if he can leave it under my canopy for the day. I print off a wiring diagram and the next day I check out his electrical system. I tell him he needs to take the engine tin off. After lunch he shows up with a tool box and tears off the shroud. Old mouse nest falls out and that coil wire is held on by a thread. How it ran the day before I'll never know. He got lucky and found a vendor at the show who sold him a coil for $20 and he got it running again. He was back at the show last year bombing around on that same tractor. 

[ri702bill 8,316]

OK Mike - looks like the mouse Motel got the quick toss. 

BY hand - turn the motor over & watch the intake valve. Does it open & close, or just stay open?? Water in the carb - good chance it's stuck. If it is - lube the guide, grab the head - gently - with pliers and rotate it. It just might pop loose. (my 854 did this when I got it)....

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,315]

3 minutes ago, squonk said:

Mice seem to like magnum coil wires. 2 years ago at our steam show there was a 10 yr. old kid on a beat to snot 312 bombing back and forth. Parks it across the way from my canopy and goes to eat. Comes back and it won't start. Wears down the battery. Now it starts to rain  He askes if he can leave it under my canopy for the day. I print off a wiring diagram and the next day I check out his electrical system. I tell him he needs to take the engine tin off. After lunch he shows up with a tool box and tears off the shroud. Old mouse nest falls out and that coil wire is held on by a thread. How it ran the day before I'll never know. He got lucky and found a vendor at the show who sold him a coil for $20 and he got it running again. He was back at the show last year bombing around on that same tractor. 

I’ve seen some chewed almost clear thru. This one will get a few wraps of 33+ 

[OutdoorEnvy 1,522]

I would sure clean and run the carb before replacing it.  I've saved worse looking ones.  As for the head I would clean off the carbon and around the valves and check their tolerances and re-seat if necessary.  Then button it back up with a new head gasket and see how it does.  Doesn't seem like anything catastrophic has occurred so I would keep going with it till there's a good enough reason to stop.  Could be a great user.  I've always thought the 14hp kohlers were a nice niche of being a single cylinder for ease and parts availability, etc. and not the higher priced desire of the 16hp single kohlers. 

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,315]

1 minute ago, ri702bill said:

OK Mike - looks like the mouse Motel got the quick toss. 

BY hand - turn the motor over & watch the intake valve. Does it open & close, or just stay open?? Water in the carb - good chance it's stuck. If it is - lube the guide, grab the head - gently - with pliers and rotate it. It just might pop loose. (my 854 did this when I got it)....

Everything moves … opens and closes like they should 

 

 

[ri702bill 8,316]

OK - now to move onto the uneven carbon formation on the piston. Washed clean by oil - or did you scrape thr top to find the STD marking???

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,315]

12 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

OK - now to move onto the uneven carbon formation on the piston. Washed clean by oil - or did you scrape thr top to find the STD marking???

Didn’t scrape anything, that’s how it looked when I popped off the head. 

[ebinmaine 67,422]

Mike. Check the carb throttle shaft for wear. It's probably good. 

Long as that shaft isn't all floppitty I'd clean her up a tad and runnitt. 

 

Excellent clean up on that before n after pic.  

[kpinnc 12,005]

Mike that tractor looks better than just about anything I've started with. Nice save!

 

As has already been suggested- run it! 

[Pullstart 62,834]

Berryman carb dip would have that thing shiny new looking in an hour or two!

[peter lena 8,609]

@Sparky  for that money , you are more than ahead !  lots of details , that fuel tank set up , is a major crud producer  , personally , remove / replace fuel valve , new fuel lines , those carb  issues reflect  moisture , and no STABIL  fuel treatment , since using that , have nothing but clean / clear fuel set up , both filters are always clean . another thing I would do , is after an engine heat up , to get some rislone zinc in the oil , been using that for years now , the operational running ease / quiet  easy  sound , run it in on a heavily treated gallon of fresh gas . have a regular , go over on a recovery , imagine  lubing something thats , never been used , might also be a time to try out a chassis length , 5/16  steel  fuel line , angle corner of frame out of sight , only hose on the ends . make changes , good luck , pete 

[oliver2-44 9,732]

20 hours ago, Sparky said:

  Not restoring this one, but would like to hear it run and then decide how to proceed with bringing this machine back into service. 
  Bought it for $100 not knowing the condition of the motor. I figured the muffler, or the 4 matching wheels and tires, or the 8 speed trans were worth the price of admission. 
  . Head has a lot of carbon. I do t know how to read what I I’m seeing so if someone can give me a “status” on the head, valves and standard piston that would be great. 

 

 

 

I’m not an expert, but here’s my limited experience.  Im interested in what others have to say. The semi-circular clean spot on the top of the piston indicates it has some blow by.  My sons 312-8 looked like that 6 years ago.  It still runs great with a slight puff of smoke on Startup. 
The lack of carbon on the exhaust valve and whiteish deposits makes me wonder if it was running hot. If they had been using it with that mouse nest blocking air flow that might be the cause.  I would also check that the muffler doesn’t have any pluggage like a broken baffel.  
I would run it with some Marvel Mystery Oil and work it. 

@Achto Your thoughts on this engine?

Edited April 22 by oliver2-44

[Achto 27,565]

2 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

@Achto Your thoughts on this engine?

 

20 hours ago, Sparky said:

I do t know how to read what I I’m seeing so if someone can give me a “status” on the head, valves and standard piston that would be great. 

 

Definitely has some piston wash, caused by oil getting past the rings. Full carbon cover on the piston indicates little to no cylinder leakage.

 

The white carbon over the exhaust could be from a lean or hot condition. The gen 4 head having the spark plug directly over the exhaust valve, could be a contributing factor as well. With this head the cylinder heat gets concentrated over the exhaust valve. Moving the plug over the exhaust valve helped to detour flooding issues on start up. It is also of benefit if you run your engine over 4000RPMs. Not this is a factor with a stock engine, but a benefit on a modified engine.   

Edited April 22 by Achto

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,315]

  Throttle shaft is nice and tight, so the carb is going for a swim for a few days. 
 

 

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,315]

  Head cleaned up, might do more cleaning while waiting for my Isavetractors.com order to show up (head gasket, carb kit) to start the reassembly. 
 

  

 

[ebinmaine 67,422]

Really should hand plane that head. 

We've made that a standard part of all our projects. 

Helps seal better if the head is true to flat.  

 

 

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,315]

18 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Really should hand plane that head. 

We've made that a standard part of all our projects. 

Helps seal better if the head is true to flat.  

 

 

Can you explain how? Never done it before. 

[ebinmaine 67,422]

4 minutes ago, Sparky said:

Can you explain how? Never done it before. 

 

Its a little time-consuming but super easy. 

 

You'll need a KNOWN FLAT surface. 

 

I've used a piece of flat glass. Tempered is best for safety. 

 

Nowadays we use a piece of known flat steel. 

 

I've read of others using something like granite or other stone.  

 

Get 3 or 4 pieces of GOOD sandpaper in grits from .. 150 (?) To 400

 

Tape the paper to your flat surface. 

Put the head down and sand it fore n aft (easiest human motion) for 25 to 30 strokes. 

TURN THE HEAD 90⁰

 

Repeat. 

Repeat. 

Repeat. 

 

Some folks prefer side to side or figure 8s. 

 

Length of time on each grit depends how warped the head is. 

You'll see the clean shiny areas fairly soon. 

 

I like to run the 150 grit until the head is nearly flat. 

Then switch up to the  middle grade. 

Run a few cycles. 

 

Switch to 400 for the finish surface. 

 

 

Usually the whole process takes 30 to 40 minutes. 

 

We've had one take a couple hours total over a couple weeks off n on but that's rare. 

 

 

[oliver2-44 9,732]

I like to use the wet/dry black sandpaper. I’ve used water and paint thinner both worked fine. 

[ebinmaine 67,422]

5 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

I like to use the wet/dry black sandpaper. I’ve used water and paint thinner both worked fine. 

 

Same paper here. 

 

I normally do the sanding dry and just wipe the sheet often to keep it clear. 

 

 

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,315]

Finally had some time to mess with the Mag14.

  Head gasket installed, I also use the copper gasket spray, no idea why, I just do and always have. 
  Pulled the carb from its loooong bath, cleaned it up, installed the carb kit stuff (minus the seat, how the heck does that get swapped?), installed the carb and all the tins, found an ignition switch  and put power to her!!! Nuttin  

  Solenoid was shot, and my two “used” spares didn’t work either. Worked around all the electrical stuff (jury riggged ) got it to turn over and she had spark. Few more spins and it fired up and ran  ! Not sure if the video will play for ya or not. 
  Ran it for like 30 seconds, sounds good and didn’t fill my garage with smoke! Very happy. 
  Oh, also rebuilt the coil wire  . 
  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,315]

  Need parts to keep going on the wiring and choke/throttle stuff. So decided to yank the PTO and give it a lube and servicing. Looks like I’ll simply be replacing it all