Starter/Gen Pulley

[Racinbob 11,050]

This looks kinda goofy to me. It's a starter/generator pulley on a K-181. Is this thing threaded? I haven't put any real effort in getting it off........yet 

 

[WHX?? 48,814]

31 minutes ago, Racinbob said:

This looks kinda goofy to me

 

Got that right !

Looks like somebody welded it on. Pic is like your eyesight these days Bob ... real blurry...  

Should be threaded with a nut. Real goofy fine thread size too and It's not 5/8-18 or 5/8-24. 

Edited April 19 by WHX??

[Ed Kennell 38,138]

5 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Looks like somebody welded it on

Plan B when you lose the rare nut.

[WHX?? 48,814]

7 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

lose the rare nut.

Haven't turned to the arc side ... yet...

[Racinbob 11,050]

22 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

 

Got that right !

Looks like somebody welded it on. Pic is like your eyesight these days Bob ... real blurry...  

 

Hey! I paid thousands to make that blur go away.

 

18 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

Plan B when you lose the rare nut.

The nut was on it. I guess that means I'm not going to be replacing the bearing on that end. 

[Handy Don 12,213]

7 minutes ago, Racinbob said:

Hey! I paid thousands to make that blur go away.

 

The nut was on it. I guess that means I'm not going to be replacing the bearing on that end. 

I'm not so sure the pulley is welded to the shaft (at least not by humans). Blurry makes it hard, but I suspect you are seeing the pulley body welded to the threaded hub.

[WHX?? 48,814]

Don may be on to something there Bob. 

[Racinbob 11,050]

Here's a better picture guys. Definitely not welded I'd say. It kinda looks like a lock nut that a special socket would fit over? 

 

[WHX?? 48,814]

OK yes much better. You should be able to see a keyway and the pulley should slide right off with some schlipenlube. Wedges behind it to get it started.  It's not threaded.

Keys can be a bugger to get out but expendable. Small woodruff. 

Edited April 19 by WHX??

[WHX?? 48,814]

11 minutes ago, Racinbob said:

kinda looks like a lock nut that a special socket would fit over? 

Just the bore staked to the pulley.

[Racinbob 11,050]

14 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

OK yes much better. You should be able to see a keyway and the pulley should slide right off with some schlipenlube. Wedges behind it to get it started.  It's not threaded.

Keys can be a bugger to get out but expendable. Small woodruff. 

 

I don't see any signs of a keyway. I'll attack it again tomorrow. I've got it soaking right now. I really don't think I have to get the pulley off. It lost its oomph to get the engine cranking enough to start up. Battery, cables, connections all are excellent. I've got a kit coming for it.  

Edited April 19 by Racinbob

[Handy Don 12,213]

1 hour ago, Racinbob said:

Here's a better picture guys. Definitely not welded I'd say. It kinda looks like a lock nut that a special socket would fit over? 

 

As @WHX?? noted...

1 hour ago, WHX?? said:

staked to the pulley.

 

There are four shallow grooves cut longways in the side of the threaded hub. Here you see the ends of them.

Once the hub is in the pulley body, a special fitting on a big press drives metal “stakes” into the grooves and against the body to wedge the two together tightly. The ends of the stakes get peened over a bit by the press fitting, as well. The outer nut and washer assure that the pulley can’t “spin off” of the shaft!

Edited April 19 by Handy Don

[Racinbob 11,050]

24 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

As @WHX?? noted...

 

There are four shallow grooves cut longways in the side of the threaded hub. Here you see the ends of them.

Once the hub is in the pulley body, a special fitting on a big press drives metal “stakes” into the grooves and against the body to wedge the two together tightly. The ends of the stakes get peened over a bit by the press fitting, as well. The outer nut and washer assure that the pulley can’t “spin off” of the shaft!

Interesting Don. It sounds like as long as the bearing is OK I shouldn't even try to get it off because it would damage the threads. Apparently they didn't do that on all of them. It's not mentioned on any of the videos I've watched or in any of their service bulletins. 

[Handy Don 12,213]

3 hours ago, Racinbob said:

Interesting Don. It sounds like as long as the bearing is OK I shouldn't even try to get it off because it would damage the threads. Apparently they didn't do that on all of them. It's not mentioned on any of the videos I've watched or in any of their service bulletins. 

I agree that not fixing something that isn’t broken is a win all day long 😄

 

What isn’t totally clear from the pictures (and from my very limited S/G experience) is whether that hub is actually threaded. The pulleys on the two S/G’s I’ve had apart did NOT have threaded hubs--the bores were smooth with keys and the protruding side of the pulley's hub rested against a step in the shaft diameter. A bearing puller would likely get it off pretty easily. This captures from a video are illustrative.

 

          

[Racinbob 11,050]

It won't come off too easy Don. This engine is actually a K-161 that was yank start. I did the swap last summer taking the 181 electric goodies and putting them on the 161. When I did that I did a half hearted attempt to get it off but when it fought me I didn't fight back. It was working but I knew it was getting weak but it got me through the summer on the sickle bar dedicated tractor. I'm thinking it's just the brushes but I'll know more tomorrow. 

[Racinbob 11,050]

Now I've never claimed to be an expert on these here starter/gen do-dads but I'm thinking this thing need a good cleaning. 

 

 

Where the  do I start? What evil chemical would you guys use? Maybe a potent mixture of Dawn in hot water? Brake, carb or electrical spray cleaner?

 

The kit I have coming has two bearings, brushes, brush springs and the two studs sticking through the case. I'll decide when I get it cleaned up if I'm going to mess with soldering in the two new studs. There's no visible signs of any damage to the armature winding and no unmistakable electrical smell of overheating. I'll ring them out later. I'll replace that bearing and polish up the commutator. The pulley end bearing is still an unknown. It depends if I can get the pulley off. That bearing does have a cover so it shouldn't be as dirty and it feels good spinning it. The date code tells me this was made in December 1963. I'd say Delco-Remy builds tanks. 

[squonk 41,068]

CRC Brake and Electric Motor cleaner

[Racinbob 11,050]

I assume you're talking about this Mike. I had never heard of it but I like the idea. 

 

 

 

[squonk 41,068]

52 minutes ago, Racinbob said:

I assume you're talking about this Mike. I had never heard of it but I like the idea. 

 

 

 

Yes. They used to sell Brake & Motor cleaner as one formula but I forgot they separated the products with separate formulas. 

[pfrederi 17,725]

Use that stuff with plenty of ventilation

[Handy Don 12,213]

2 hours ago, pfrederi said:

Use that stuff with plenty of ventilation

Added emphasis. Stuff works great, but pleas read the usage warnings on the label. 

[Racinbob 11,050]

Come on guys, it can't be worse than chlorinated brake cleaner and some of the other cleaners I use. I go through at least 20 cans of that stuff a year. 

Edited April 20 by Racinbob

[Handy Don 12,213]

17 minutes ago, Racinbob said:

I go through at least 20 cans of that stuff a year

Probably not worse, but surely not a bit safer!

And I used to use my chainsaw and blower without ear protection. 

Edited April 20 by Handy Don

[Ed Kennell 38,138]

59 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

I used to use my chainsaw and blower without ear protection.

Me to.    Now I don't need ear protection.   My chain saw is so quiet now, the only way I can tell it's running is by the vibration.  

[SylvanLakeWH 25,535]

12 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

Me to.    Now I don't need ear protection.   My chain saw is so quiet now, the only way I can tell it's running is by the vibration.  

 

So's mine... 

 

Edited April 20 by SylvanLakeWH