Hydro brand differences

[John c 79]

I'm looking for opinions and comments from you guys who've had both the sunstrand on a 70's model an eaton on a 90's vintage model. 

 

The only job the machine will do is grass cutting, maybe pull a small yard cart, but nothing heavy.

 

So is there differences big enough between the two to influence a decision 

 

thanks

[953 nut 55,191]

As long as they are in good operating condition either one should be fine for mowing and towing. You should warm up the transmission and then test it by chaining the tractor to a tree and see if it will spin the tires.

[John c 79]

is either one or the other more or less prone to trouble ? 

 

The eaton is the one without a tow valve correct ? 

[Ed Kennell 38,141]

52 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

.  see if it will spin the tires.

 In forward and reverse with you in the seat.                   The Sundstrands have a pressure relief  run/tow valve that will permit pushing or towing to move by hand.  

 

The Eatons can not be towed.      The Eaton 700 is very difficult to move by hand and will not have a hydraulic lift.

The Eaton 1100  (IMO, the best Wheel Horse Hudro)  can be pushed by hand and can have a hydraulic lift.

[Pullstart 62,836]

Remember, the Sunstrand was no slouch.  They were in anything from an 8 hp GT to Bobcat loaders…

[Ed Kennell 38,141]

5 hours ago, John c said:

 

So is there differences big enough between the two to influence a decision 

IMO, the Eaton 700 is the weakest hydro, but it will still mow and pull a cart.    All the other hydros have been used successfully in tractors with 20HP engines and can handle all implements.      The biggest difference is the age.    The Sundstrands are 1960-1980, the Eatons are 1980 and up.    But we all know a well maintained 60 yo sundstrand with low hours would be better that a 30yo abused Eaton with high hours.     One other consideration is the Sundstrands started out using automatic transmission oil and at some point switched to motor oil.  The two should not be mixed.

[kpinnc 12,007]

4 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

The Eaton 1100  (IMO, the best Wheel Horse Hudro)  can be pushed by hand and can have a hydraulic lift.

 

I agree. So long as you keep them clean and serviced properly. 

 

I think the torque ratio (input vs. output) is far higher on an Eaton 1100 as compared to Sundstrand. My Bronco's engine governor will quickly get involved towing something heavy where an Eaton equipped tractor does not. 

[Handy Don 12,214]

6 hours ago, Pullstart said:

Remember, the Sunstrand was no slouch.  They were in anything from an 8 hp GT to Bobcat loaders…

But different models, I suspect 😄

Several Sunstrancs supported a hydraulic lift and had the benefit of the pressure relief valve for the lift circuit built into the hydro itself--on Eaton 1100, the pressure relief was parr of the control valve..

[Pullstart 62,836]

5 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

One other consideration is the Sundstrands started out using automatic transmission oil and at some point switched to motor oil.  The two should not be mixed.

Has there ever been an explanation of why?  @pfrederi?  @daveoman1966?

[kpinnc 12,007]

28 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

Has there ever been an explanation of why?  

 

After seeing the inside of a Sundstrand that ran on ATF vs motor oil, I will never run motor oil in one. ATF has better anti wear and corrosion protection, and runs cooler. 

 

Just my preference. Your mileage may vary. 

[pfrederi 17,729]

Sunstrand Hydro gears were used by many manufacturers and many of then used different lubricants.  Maybe WH changed for simplicity (or  cost) or they thought that motor oil was better for teh transaxle gears...

[Handy Don 12,214]

1 minute ago, pfrederi said:

Sunstrand Hydro gears were used by many manufacturers and many of then used different lubricants.  Maybe WH changed for simplicity (or  cost) or they thought that motor oil was better for teh transaxle gears...

Good point.

Lots of considerations with the hydro pump/motor, the transaxle gears, hydraulic hoses & fittings & cylinders, and various seals and gaskets all exposed to whatever is circulating in there!

[John c 79]

good conversation here, thanks everybody. 

 

I'm going saturday to get a 314H, looks like mid 90's vintage, didn't get any numbers from him, but it's marked as "toro wheel horse" , not marked as classic and the lift and drive levers are on the steering column and a oil filter under the seat, so that looks like the 1100 eaton which should do me fine. 

 

I was looking at C160 too, but the guy had painted it and replaced a bunch of parts and was kinda sketchy with answers and details, the 314 seller was easier to talk to, and would give direct answers. The 160 did have a 42RD deck though which I was looking forward to. But the 314 is original, low hours, with a 48SD deck, better tires and the 314 was 1/2 the $$ and 1/2 the drive. I decided, thanks to all y'all, the transmissions wheren't different enough to tip it either way and think the 314 has more going for it. 

 

Everbody keep your fingers crossed the seller doesn't flake out on me. 

 

thanks for your help guys  

[John c 79]

another question, the unidrive part of the transmission looks the same as a -8 model, is it selectable hi-lo range like a gear drive 

[pfrederi 17,729]

No the transaxle on a hydro is a single speed no hi-lo. 

[Fordiesel69 263]

I own both of what you were looking to purchase, and the good news is your Toro branded tractor will have the M14 which will have the large exhaust valve.   It will sound on par with a old big block K341 16HP, and it will feel very powerful paired with the Eaton 1100.  My pair of C-160's are very beat, and they are still very strong.   

 

I still love the K341 / M16 engines, but it sounds like the one you settled on was a no brainer.

 

I have never had issues with the eatons or the sunstrand hydros I would say both are very good, and very overbuilt.

 

I would have no desire to own a Eaton 700, hence why I have 1 spare eaton 1100 and 1 spare sunstrand.  Just in case!

 

 

 

 

Edited April 17 by Fordiesel69

[Ed Kennell 38,141]

5 hours ago, John c said:

 the 314 is original, low hours, with a 48SD deck, better tires and the 314 was 1/2 the $$ and 1/2 the drive. 

 

Sounds like a no brainer.    Congrats.

[John c 79]

Ed I thought the same thing I'm going to pick it up in the morning. 

 

Who can tell me reasoning behind the T handle gizmo at the lower right coner of the controls panel that, as best as I can tell un-loads the hyd pump, when and why is that necessary ? 

[Fordiesel69 263]

The t handle does just that.  Unloads the drive belt so you can start it.  Trust me in winter ops, you need to use it.  During the hot summer (hot storage shed) it probably does not matter as much.  

 

Now having said that....my opionion, Kohler K series starters last a long time, but are old now.  Magnum series starters are a notch or two less durable than the K series but are of a newer era.  So it is best practice to pull the handle and not have to give the starter any extra load.  

[Ed Kennell 38,141]

9 minutes ago, John c said:

I can tell un-loads the hyd pump

Correct, It makes it easier to start the engine especially in cold weather.    Use it, your battery and starter will thank you.

After starting the engine and engaging the pump,  the pump should be allowed to warm up for 5 minutes before using the lift or motion control.

[Ed Kennell 38,141]

I have 4 Eaton 1100s  and the lift will work on start up and one will require a 5 minute warm up.   This is not a problem,  just let it warm up.  You will actually hear a change when the pump starts to pump oil.

[John c 79]

thanks, probably best then if I back this one in the barn if needs to warm up, keep from building up a gas chamber in the shed

[Handy Don 12,214]

1 minute ago, John c said:

thanks, probably best then if I back this one in the barn if needs to warm up, keep from building up a gas chamber in the shed

They are individuals with their own traits! Our 1100 seems ready to work within a minute of startup as long as the temp is above 40º.

[Fordiesel69 263]

I have a 312H that refuses to lift until a 3 minute warm up.  It moves forward and backward just fine though.   

[Rick3478 428]

On 4/19/2024 at 1:48 PM, Fordiesel69 said:

I have a 312H that refuses to lift until a 3 minute warm up.  It moves forward and backward just fine though.   

 

Mine does that, doesn't take it 3 minutes though, more like 15 seconds.  I sort of figured oil drains out of the valves when sitting and takes a bit to pump back up, but that's just an impression.  I figure as long as it works and doesn't leak I don't care.