K Series Voltage Regulators

[BrianX128 107]

Hey all,

 

I have a 14hp K series that isn't charging. I have power coming out of the stator, but this replacement thing isn't sending anything to the battery.

 

 

I've never had one like this and always had the bigger "box" style ones. I'm not really sure what to troubleshoot given the AC voltage coming out, being hooked to the correct outside wires, etc. Is it just junk probably?

 

Thanks!

[ebinmaine 67,424]

Is it grounded properly? 

 

 

I've had better luck with getting an older used original VR than buying new .... 🚮

[BrianX128 107]

As much as I want to say yes I'm going to just add a wire to where I mounted it in case the paint isn't letting it ground and see if it changes anything. Good idea.

[ebinmaine 67,424]

1 minute ago, BrianX128 said:

As much as I want to say yes I'm going to just add a wire to where I mounted it in case the paint isn't letting it ground and see if it changes anything. Good idea.

 

When I build a wiring harness I add a separate ground for the VR. Always.  

[BrianX128 107]

Yeah I don't even want to show the wiring on this thing. I bought it for the engine and ended up just rebuilding the 16HP instead. Now I'm just trying to get it usable enough to drive around the yard with a cart. I'm wondering if the electric fuel pump could be interfering with the voltage regulator calling to charge the battery. It has a little click clack pump that works well and I don't have a spare working manual pump to put in but I can't think it's helping me.

[squonk 41,068]

Those electric pumps only draw a couple of amps. Doubt it's your issue. When you say you have power coming out of the stator how much power is it? Should be 36 volts AC

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,040]

With key on but engine not running

Check voltage at the battery

Check voltage at DC+ terminal on the regulator

Should be the same.

If not the same the path from the regulator to battery is compromised.

 

These regulators must see battery voltage to turn them on so to speak before they will regulate the charge current.

[BrianX128 107]

16 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

With key on but engine not running

Check voltage at the battery

Check voltage at DC+ terminal on the regulator

Should be the same.

If not the same the path from the regulator to battery is compromised.

 

These regulators must see battery voltage to turn them on so to speak before they will regulate the charge current.

 

So I got some time this morning to do some better testing. With engine running leads from stator are making 22v AC at idle and 33v and wide open.

 

Wire at dc+ on regulator only shows 10.8v while engine is running at any speed, battery positive shows 11.8v... so I took wire off dc+ on regulator and it reads 11.8v until I put it back on the regulator and it drops back to 10.8v.

 

I.. don't know how that can do that. I started all 3 of my other k series and tested them to make sure I was testing right and they all give expected results. Even if we pretend the rats nest of wires on this one didn't exist, if I run a new wire straight from the battery post to the dc+ on the regulator it does the same thing, and I also have a ground wire screwed into the second mounting hole of the regulator up to the battery ground so I know it's grounded. I guess it's just junk? Part of me wants to swap one from a good mower, the other part doesn't want anything that works anywhere near this tractor. Either way I'm removing every wire from this thing and starting over. Makes my highschool wiring I did on my car look like it was done by an electrical engineer.

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,424]

20 minutes ago, BrianX128 said:

Either way I'm removing every wire from this thing and starting over.

 

Given the situation I'd say that's the best bet. 

 

Old saying some auto techs used to tell me. 

You can NOT do proper diagnostics until proper maintenance is done. 

 

Your rig may be a prime candidate for a total removal of every wire and start over.  

 

 

[BrianX128 107]

5 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

Given the situation I'd say that's the best bet. 

 

Old saying some auto techs used to tell me. 

You can NOT do proper diagnostics until proper maintenance is done. 

 

Your rig may be a prime candidate for a total removal of every wire and start over.  

 

 

You sure? Hahaha

[pfrederi 17,725]

Dump that fuel pump...they are not reliable. I have one that works one that died 800 ft from home

[ebinmaine 67,424]

55 minutes ago, BrianX128 said:

 You sure? Hahaha

 

 

AAAGGGHHH !!!!!!

 

 

 

 

[wallfish 16,994]

3 hours ago, BrianX128 said:

You sure? Hahaha

 

Add some meatballs and a piece of garlic bread and it'll look pretty good! LOL

[BrianX128 107]

How does the ignition system typically get fed power from the battery? Is it one 18ga piece of speaker wire jammed against the positive lead from the battery where it meets the starter solenoid? And then it runs into 5 different things, one of which apparently does join the "R" circuit for the ignition? Reverse engineering this is almost fun.

[kpinnc 12,005]

Regulator definitely not doing what it should. You should get 13.5vdc or more (depending on how many cranks you had to get started) on the B+ lead at full throttle. 

 

Mine sometimes push 14+ right after cranking, then settle down to around 12.8 after 15 mins run time or so. 

Edited March 30 by kpinnc

[Rick3478 428]

1 hour ago, BrianX128 said:

How does the ignition system typically get fed power from the battery? Is it one 18ga piece of speaker wire jammed against the positive lead from the battery where it meets the starter solenoid? And then it runs into 5 different things, one of which apparently does join the "R" circuit for the ignition? Reverse engineering this is almost fun.

 

What I'm used to seeing is the battery post on the starter solenoid is also the main source of all things +12.  I'd expect something in the neighborhood of 14ga. going to the ammeter (if you have one), then from there to the "B" terminal of the ignition switch.  The "I" terminal of the ignition switch is the usual source of power to the coil "+".  That's pretty general.  Arm yourself with an actual diagram for your model.

 

And I don't recommend running it with the tin off the head, it won't cool properly.

 

[BrianX128 107]

 

So I got a "new" brick style regulator and we're charging now. However after 10 minutes the voltage gauge was over 16v and it hadn't stopped charging.  I'm thinking the fact that the electric fuel pump is wired from the same 18 gauge speaker wire is lowering the voltage there and making it think it needs to charge at all times. I'm going to get a fog light relay when I rewire things and not use this cheap wire. I can't possibly think this regulator is bad out of the box and going to charge until the battery boils without there being a reason. The fact that it worked immediately where the other one didn't leads me to believe this rats nest of wires from the previous owner was at least functional. The rpm gauge even started to work with the new regulator.

[BrianX128 107]

 

So yeah, I think the wires on this thing are crusty. In this video I'm adding a jumper wire from battery + to the charging wire that is coming back to the ignition. When I do that, the volt meter and amp gauge go down. If I pull it off, they go up.