Box grader build

[Keithwidney 48]

So I had a couple of decent caterpillar 657 cutting edges at work that I decided to bring home and make a box grader (BG). I welded everything up and added an electric lift actuator and a switch to lift and lower it. I works well but it is heavy and uphill pulls don’t go so well. Next is to fabricate a mid blade that can kick side to side like the factory mid blades but I’m going to also make it tilt side to side so I can grade my trail to have tilt for water sheeting.

[ebinmaine 67,427]

Niiiiice.  

 

6 minutes ago, Keithwidney said:

works well but it is heavy and uphill pulls don’t go so well.

 

What's the reasoning here?

Does the tractor need more traction? 

 

 

[wallfish 16,994]

Nice job on the box grader. Weight on the tractor will help with traction.

@Handy Don and I were kicking around many different ideas for the side to side tilt of a center blade and how to lock it. Everything from electric magnets to mechanical disk brakes. Not sure if he has committed to anything on his build yet but pretty sure he can provide some thoughts on it. 

[Keithwidney 48]

In time traction will get better. The hill is loose and steep. I need to run a vibe plate and hit it a few more times. 
for the blade I’m using a weld on goose neck trailer cup and ball to create the swivel point and rod ends to keep the blade from rolling back and a jack screw/bolt to adjust the tilt manually. 

[RandyLittrell 3,877]

Garden tractors just naturally have more power than they have traction for, wheel weights and ballast in the tires make a huge difference. The more the better!! 

 

Nice job on the grader!!

 

Randy

 

 

 

Edited February 18 by RandyLittrell

[Handy Don 12,213]

12 hours ago, Keithwidney said:

I’m using a weld on goose neck trailer cup and ball to create the swivel point and rod ends to keep the blade from rolling back and a jack screw/bolt to adjust the tilt manually.

As @wallfish mentioned, I, too, am looking to put a crown on dirt/gravel roads. I’ve been trying and discarding ideas steadily as well as doing lots of calculations. I’m targeting this for my 854 which is a fairly light, short frame tractor using an Allis-Chalmers mid-blade. The blade is heavy steel (45+ lbs without the frame). 

 

 I’ve gotten as far as doing a temporary attachment of the blade and realized a few things:

- the standard mid-attach latch is not strong enough for what I have in mind (I use this tractor with a mower deck that relies on one mid-attach plate to hold the PTO clutch pulley which limits modification options)

- road/trail crowning needs 4º of roll (½” per foot) and swales need 8-10º so at the outer end of a 42” blade that amounts to only 1.8” for crowning and 3.6” or so for swales. A roll control mounted 12” from the tractor centerline would need a 2+” range (+1 to -1 inch)

- the upward force at the lower end of the blade (i.e. the force against the roll control) when crowning I estimate at up to 100 lbs in soil or gravel. A control attached 12” out from the tractor centerline would experience ~200 lbs. At 6” out, 400 lbs. At 2” out, 1,200 lbs. That is a lot of force. (Note, the weight of the blade is not a factor since it is evenly distributed, and hence balanced, from end to end.)

- keeping the blade solidly in position for accurate, consistent grading at the proper height, rotation, and roll demands a very strong frame with very strong controls over all three directions--gravity alone is unlikely keep the blade down to dig in compacted soils or gravel

- grading soil containing rocks or roots will further require a means of unloading the blade or frame to prevent damage to the blade, the frame, and/or the tractor--think snowblower trip springs.

 

Then, there is the behavior of the whole setup when doing a crown or swale. Given that this is a midblade, as the tractor starts the crown all four wheels will be in roughly the same plane. Once the blade starts the crown/swale and the tractor moves forward, one rear wheel “drops down” into the newly cut angle! If the blade is locked to the tractor frame this causes the digging of a new, steeper crown! To stop this progression, the operator must bring the blade back “level” with the tractor frame. As the tractor continues, the operator likely will continue to “tweak” the setting depending on the soil conditions and how well the blade creates the crown.

 

I’ve yet to make a final decision on what I’m going to do 😁

[ebinmaine 67,427]

@Handy Don

Some excellent thought processes and information there. 

[wallfish 16,994]

10 hours ago, Handy Don said:

As @wallfish mentioned, I, too, am looking to put a crown on dirt/gravel roads. I’ve been trying and discarding ideas steadily as well as doing lots of calculations. I’m targeting this for my 854 which is a fairly light, short frame tractor using an Allis-Chalmers mid-blade. The blade is heavy steel (45+ lbs without the frame). 

 

 I’ve gotten as far as doing a temporary attachment of the blade and realized a few things:

- the standard mid-attach latch is not strong enough for what I have in mind (I use this tractor with a mower deck that relies on one mid-attach plate to hold the PTO clutch pulley which limits modification options)

- road/trail crowning needs 4º of roll (½” per foot) and swales need 8-10º so at the outer end of a 42” blade that amounts to only 1.8” for crowning and 3.6” or so for swales. A roll control mounted 12” from the tractor centerline would need a 2+” range (+1 to -1 inch)

- the upward force at the lower end of the blade (i.e. the force against the roll control) when crowning I estimate at up to 100 lbs in soil or gravel. A control attached 12” out from the tractor centerline would experience ~200 lbs. At 6” out, 400 lbs. At 2” out, 1,200 lbs. That is a lot of force. (Note, the weight of the blade is not a factor since it is evenly distributed, and hence balanced, from end to end.)

- keeping the blade solidly in position for accurate, consistent grading at the proper height, rotation, and roll demands a very strong frame with very strong controls over all three directions--gravity alone is unlikely keep the blade down to dig in compacted soils or gravel

- grading soil containing rocks or roots will further require a means of unloading the blade or frame to prevent damage to the blade, the frame, and/or the tractor--think snowblower trip springs.

 

Then, there is the behavior of the whole setup when doing a crown or swale. Given that this is a midblade, as the tractor starts the crown all four wheels will be in roughly the same plane. Once the blade starts the crown/swale and the tractor moves forward, one rear wheel “drops down” into the newly cut angle! If the blade is locked to the tractor frame this causes the digging of a new, steeper crown! To stop this progression, the operator must bring the blade back “level” with the tractor frame. As the tractor continues, the operator likely will continue to “tweak” the setting depending on the soil conditions and how well the blade creates the crown.

 

I’ve yet to make a final decision on what I’m going to do 😁

Is that all?

[kpinnc 12,007]

This is very similar to what I've been working on. My current box blade works, but the fine adjustment isn't there. Yours is closer to what I'm gonna build. 

 

Edited February 19 by kpinnc

[pfrederi 17,728]

12 hours ago, Handy Don said:

As @wallfish mentioned, I, too, am looking to put a crown on dirt/gravel roads. I’ve been trying and discarding ideas steadily as well as doing lots of calculations. I’m targeting this for my 854 which is a fairly light, short frame tractor using an Allis-Chalmers mid-blade. The blade is heavy steel (45+ lbs without the frame). 

 

 I’ve gotten as far as doing a temporary attachment of the blade and realized a few things:

- the standard mid-attach latch is not strong enough for what I have in mind (I use this tractor with a mower deck that relies on one mid-attach plate to hold the PTO clutch pulley which limits modification options)

- road/trail crowning needs 4º of roll (½” per foot) and swales need 8-10º so at the outer end of a 42” blade that amounts to only 1.8” for crowning and 3.6” or so for swales. A roll control mounted 12” from the tractor centerline would need a 2+” range (+1 to -1 inch)

- the upward force at the lower end of the blade (i.e. the force against the roll control) when crowning I estimate at up to 100 lbs in soil or gravel. A control attached 12” out from the tractor centerline would experience ~200 lbs. At 6” out, 400 lbs. At 2” out, 1,200 lbs. That is a lot of force. (Note, the weight of the blade is not a factor since it is evenly distributed, and hence balanced, from end to end.)

- keeping the blade solidly in position for accurate, consistent grading at the proper height, rotation, and roll demands a very strong frame with very strong controls over all three directions--gravity alone is unlikely keep the blade down to dig in compacted soils or gravel

- grading soil containing rocks or roots will further require a means of unloading the blade or frame to prevent damage to the blade, the frame, and/or the tractor--think snowblower trip springs.

 

Then, there is the behavior of the whole setup when doing a crown or swale. Given that this is a midblade, as the tractor starts the crown all four wheels will be in roughly the same plane. Once the blade starts the crown/swale and the tractor moves forward, one rear wheel “drops down” into the newly cut angle! If the blade is locked to the tractor frame this causes the digging of a new, steeper crown! To stop this progression, the operator must bring the blade back “level” with the tractor frame. As the tractor continues, the operator likely will continue to “tweak” the setting depending on the soil conditions and how well the blade creates the crown.

 

I’ve yet to make a final decision on what I’m going to do 😁

 

 

 

I think you need one of these our township has one does all the crowning an swales on our dirt roads

 

 

[Handy Don 12,213]

17 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

 

 

 

I think you need one of these our township has one does all the crowning an swales on our dirt roads

 

 

I would LOVE to have use of one of these periodically but to store and maintain it, no thank you! I’ve been aiming for most of the versatility but only a fraction of its capability. In the end, I suspect, the 854’s frame is not gonna be suited for doing it all. Stay tuned, though.

 

 My interest in these goes way back... I was 12 and contractors were grading and paving the gravel road in front of our house using a big grader. I walked alongside all day observing and learned how it worked. At the end of the day the workers parked it up the street but left the keys in it. WAY too tempting. I got it running and lifted the blade and started moving it forward and just then my Dad showed up. Uh oh. He was impressed at my enterprise, angry that I could have hurt friends who were hanging around, and VERY upset that the workers left the keys! I got only modest punishment; the contractor got an earful from my Dad and the neighbors.

 

 

[Handy Don 12,213]

1 hour ago, kpinnc said:

This is very similar to what I've been working on. My current box blade works, but the fine adjustment isn't there. Yours is closer to what I'm gonna build. 

 

I am considering a towed combo box blade/grader. There are many commercial examples including horse-drawn (the four-legged kind).

My use case is to recondition logging roads in a forest that are in very rough shape.

[kpinnc 12,007]

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

I walked alongside all day observing and learned how it worked. At the end of the day the workers parked it up the street but left the keys in it. WAY too tempting. I got it running and lifted the blade and started moving it forward

 

Headline 30 years ago: Driven self starter decides to teach himself how a grader works for future endeavors. No injuries reported.

 

Headline today: Child eco terrorist arrested during rampage. Parents questioned and detained.  Neighbors describe harrowing incident and will receive counseling.

Edited February 19 by kpinnc

[SylvanLakeWH 25,535]

@kpinnc Sad... but spot on. 

[Lee1977 6,656]

On 2/19/2024 at 12:35 PM, kpinnc said:

 

Headline 30 years ago: Driven self starter decides to teach himself how a grader works for future endeavors. No injuries reported.

 

Headline today: Child eco terrorist arrested during rampage. Parents questioned and detained.  Neighbors describe harrowing incident and will receive counseling.

You left out - No injuries "or damage" reported.