Another what iz it 4

[wallfish 16,994]

This strange piece of equipment came as part of a Ritter antique dental drill. The label calls it an Ionization motor-generator. It has 110v input and output to motor connections on the top. No spinning shaft out the side(s). Initial internet search hasn't really revealed anything so maybe the vast amount of knowledge of RS might have an idea. What iz it for? Any ideas? I have no clue what it does for an electric motor connected to it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Overall pic of drill with the foot controller and that ionizer thingy. It's very well made and amazing how that rope/belt going through all of those pulleys can flawlessly spin that drill tip in almost any position . Have not plugged it in to test it yet as I don't want to let out any magic smoke.

A customer gave this to me as a "tip". They were clearing out the estate of a passed love one and this was still in the basement. They didn't have the heart to throw it out and were glad to find someone that could appreciate it. I just thought it's cool old school. If it actually runs and works I might use it for toothpick art builds. IDK

 

[ri702bill 8,314]

Looks like a 1930's Dentist drill.......

[Ed Kennell 38,128]

Motor–generator - Wikipedia         Power up that MG and measure the output.

[Pullstart 62,834]

That belt driven arm… is amazing!

[lynnmor 7,304]

15 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

That belt driven arm… is amazing!

My first dentist had one of those, they spin slow compared to modern equipment and it caused some pain.

[wallfish 16,994]

6 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

Motor–generator - Wikipedia         Power up that MG and measure the output.

I'm interested in the Ionization part because I don't understand what that's referring to.

Is this what that ionization part means?

"Motor–generators have even been used where the input and output currents are essentially the same. In this case, the mechanical inertia of the M–G set is used to filter out transients in the input power. The output's electric current can be very clean (noise free) and will be able to ride-through brief blackouts and switching transients at the input to the M–G set."

I can see where early electrical power probably wasn't stable and clean like it is today.

 

And BTW, said eff it and plugged it in since it was all wired up anyway.

SUCCESS it actually operates. No magic smoke loss at all.  The foot control works good to control speed and direction of rotation with a slight spring tension back to neutral. It could certainly use a good cleaning and greasy Pete would be in his glory going through all of the points that need lubrication on this thing!  

I haven't powered the ionization thingy yet but may try it to see what happens.

 

[Pullstart 62,834]

1 minute ago, wallfish said:

BTW, said eff it and plugged it in since it was all wired up anyway.

 

attaboy John!

 

1 minute ago, wallfish said:

It could certainly use a good cleaning and greasy Pete would be in his glory going through all of the points that need lubrication on this thing!  

 

[wallfish 16,994]

4 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

My first dentist had one of those, they spin slow compared to modern equipment and it caused some pain.

OUCH!!!!!!

There's lots of references to the Ritter drill online but this is the only one found so far that has that much larger pulley on the motor. It speeds it up quite a bit compared to the smaller pulley size.

[squonk 41,064]

My Uncle was a dentist and had one of those things when he got out of college. I used to play with it when I was in elementary school! 

[Ed Kennell 38,128]

21 minutes ago, wallfish said:

'm interested in the Ionization part because I don't understand what that's referring to.

I think this term was used early on to describe  any  change in electrical current.   Totally different meaning today.

[ri702bill 8,314]

I'll go way out on a limb here.... Does the motor have carbon brushes or is it induction?? Old style sparky brush and commutator motors give off an ozone stinky-stank smell in use. Is the ionizer used to counter that??

The tag says RITTER - the bigest name in dental equipment....

Edited February 3 by ri702bill

[wallfish 16,994]

52 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

I'll go way out on a limb here.... Does the motor have carbon brushes or is it induction?? Old style sparky brush and commutator motors give off an ozone stinky-stank smell in use. Is the ionizer used to counter that??

The tag says RITTER - the bigest name in dental equipment....

Interesting. But I had to open up the thing up to give it a spin because of the long sit. It itself has brushes too.

It did fire up and spin! I tried powering the drill with it but nothing. Can't seem to find the multi meter but will locate that and try to measure an output.

Here's the wire connection label on it

1 hour ago, Ed Kennell said:

I think this term was used early on to describe  any  change in electrical current.   Totally different meaning today.

Interesting thought and makes sense

Edited February 3 by wallfish

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,297]

1 hour ago, squonk said:

My Uncle was a dentist and had one of those things when he got out of college. I used to play with it when I was in elementary school! 

Now I think I understand @squonk problem . Self dentistry, one too many holes in his melon.

[wh500special 2,168]

Unless it's something wacky, the motor-generator is probably a frequency converter to get higher speeds out of the drill motor.   You put 60Hz power in and it bumps it up to some higher frequency.  It probably doesn't change the voltage, but it might depending how it's made.  Since (edited) electric motors spin at a speed proportional to their number of poles, increasing the line frequency increases the rotational speed.

 

Usually what's inside those is an electric motor on one end and an alternator on the other.  They share a common shaft down the center.  The electric motor spins at, say 1750 RPM, and drives the alternator at the same speed.  The alternator's construction determines the output frequency of the power being generated.  If it has twice the number of poles of the motor, then the output frequency is doubled.  If tripled, then the frequency is tripled.  Etc.  So anything connected to the output terminals will spin faster as a result.

 

Like Ed said, power it up and measure the output frequency.  It probably won't be the same as that coming in (60Hz).   If it is, then it was most likely intended to smooth the operating speed of the drill but somewhat stabilizing a wandering utility (or generator) line frequency.  The angular momentum of the unit when running and the inductance would both help soften any frequency variations or at least relieve spikes and pulses that might otherwise occur in the small drill motor.

 

These M-Gs are old technology.  Today this is typically done with inverters and variable frequency drives.   But these things still show up here and there.  I have a fairly large one at work that we use to generate 400 Hz power to mimick the power supplies found on ships and aircraft.  There they use the higher frequencies to drive small motors to high speed to get high specific (low weight) power outputs out of things.  Also the higher frequency greatly decreases the amount of iron needed in transformers and whatnot to do the same amount of work.

 

Neat find.

 

Steve

 

Edit - I removed my comment about non-brushed motors since you found this has brushes in it.  I'm kind of surprised by that, but maybe I shouldn't be given the age of things.

Edited February 3 by wh500special

[wallfish 16,994]

8 minutes ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

Now I think I understand @squonk problem . Self dentistry, one too many holes in his melon.

Just found @squonk 's 4th grade pic online! LOL He drilled too deep while playing with that thing

Edited February 3 by wallfish

[squonk 41,064]

11 minutes ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

Now I think I understand @squonk problem . Self dentistry, one too many holes in his melon.

I was into construction equipment in my young age. I had that drill in a little red wagon and it was my mobile crane/ drill set up

[wh500special 2,168]

16 minutes ago, wallfish said:

 

 

That's weird.  Maybe this thing puts out DC power on the Positive and Negative terminals.  That would explain the brushes...

 

Steve

[wh500special 2,168]

One last stab since my attention span must be short today...

 

I missed it on your first picture, but now I see it says it has 40 V output.  I wonder if that reduced output voltage is for safety since the drill apparatus is going to mechanically contact a patient's mouth and the dentist's hands. 40V is a pretty safe voltage compared to 120.  And it could be current limited to a very small number for the same reason.  P could be the line and N could be grounded internally so it's at zero volts.

 

I gotta learn to look before I leap sometimes...

 

Steve

Edited February 3 by wh500special

[wallfish 16,994]

10 minutes ago, wh500special said:

One last stab since my attention span must be short today...

 

I missed it on your first picture, but now I see it says it has 40 VAC output.  I wonder if that reduced output voltage is for safety since the drill apparatus is going to mechanically contact a patient's mouth and the dentist's hands. 40V is a pretty safe voltage compared to 120.  And it could be current limited to a very small number for the same reason.  P could be the line and N could be grounded internally so it's at zero volts.

 

I gotta learn to look before I leap sometimes...

 

Steve

I missed that Generator 40 volt thing too

[Ed Kennell 38,128]

My dentist used one like that when I was a Kid.    But that was pre electricity so his was pedal powered.

[Handy Don 12,210]

I shudder remembering what dentistry was like before high speed, water cooled drills. 

[wallfish 16,994]

This is a spare drill motor that came with it. Locked up so figure it's best to mess around with this one before going into the other one. Not too bad to work on but ya gotta find some tiny little set screws. The shafts and bearings needed to be cleaned off and oiled. Cool little motor! Think it should work and this one might the original motor