867 "Pigpen"

[TractorEd 633]

Like seein’ what you’re workin’ on.

Keep it up!

[ebinmaine 67,427]

6 minutes ago, TractorEd said:

Like seein’ what you’re workin’ on.

Keep it up!

Thanks Ed!    

 

Soon as this one's done there'll be another coming in. Either the Military Tribute Tractor or my parent's C121.  

Stay tuned!!

[ebinmaine 67,427]

The Lead Dismantler Technician pulled some stuff and did more degrungerizing. 

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,427]

Trainsuhmashunn is out on the bench. 

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,427]

Earlier today I spent some time messing around with 3 or 4 carbs. 

 

Got this one for Trina all cleaned up and assembled.  

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,427]

Me n the BBT got a few minutes to work on the Pigpen this evening. 

 

She cleaned up the engine block, breather assembly,  and fuel pump. Then reinstalled above parts. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whilst she was doing that I got the transmission cracked open. 

 

 

 

There's a few rust spots to be gouged out and cleaned up.  

 

 

I disassembled the Limited Slip Differential and changed the spring while checking everything over.  

 

Old spring certainly shows some consistent wear. The new one is substantially tighter between the pinions.  

 

[ebinmaine 67,427]

Trina and I have been pleasantly surprised by how well and easy this one's been coming apart. 

The transmission rear pin wasn't even a tough get. 

The case halves cracked right apart like they should have. No fighting me. 

 

 

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,315]

I wonder if the spring in my 867 is tuckered out. I’m not 100% sure I have working posi 

[ebinmaine 67,427]

45 minutes ago, Sparky said:

I wonder if the spring in my 867 is tuckered out. I’m not 100% sure I have working posi 

 

Get both back tires off the ground. 

Tractor in neutral. 

Turn one. 

On a properly working Limited Slip Differential the other tire will turn the same way. 

Test from both sides. 

 

On this 867 it would turn... but made a clicking clunking and sometimes passed by to spin opposite or one wheel spun only.  

 

 

If you want a rebuild done I'd be happy to help.  

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,315]

6 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

Get both back tires off the ground. 

Tractor in neutral. 

Turn one. 

On a properly working Limited Slip Differential the other tire will turn the same way. 

Test from both sides. 

 
When I dig it out from its hibernation I’ll do the wheel spinning test. 

[wallfish 16,994]

I thought those limited slips are only 8 speed trans. They did that LS on 4 speeds too?

[ebinmaine 67,427]

3 minutes ago, wallfish said:

I thought those limited slips are only 8 speed trans. They did that LS on 4 speeds too?

 

6 speeds from 1967 to 69. 

8 speeds til maybe 72 ((??))

 

No 3 or 4 speeds I've seen.  

[wallfish 16,994]

Just now, ebinmaine said:

 

6 speeds from 1967 to 69. 

8 speeds til maybe 72 ((??))

 

No 3 or 4 speeds I've seen.  

I call 6 speeds 8 speeds too.

[ebinmaine 67,427]

18 minutes ago, wallfish said:

I call 6 speeds 8 speeds too.

 

  gonna get aftah you.  

 

😅

[Handy Don 12,213]

On 2/12/2024 at 8:02 PM, ebinmaine said:

disassembled the Limited Slip Differential and changed the spring while checking everything over.

While open, be sure to carefully examine the diff end plates, the pinion gears, and the pinion sockets for uneven wear (you did keep track of which ones were where and their orientation, right).

The “limited slip” friction comes from the spring pressing the pinions’ teeth against the sockets. If the pressure isn’t even, the ENDS of the teeth or the sides of the sockets will wear down unevenly. This can force the pinion gears against the sides of the diff end plate and gouge it out.

[ebinmaine 67,427]

5 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

carefully examine the diff end plates, the pinion gears, and the pinion sockets for uneven wear

 

☑️  

 

They look great.  

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,315]

1 hour ago, wallfish said:

I thought those limited slips are only 8 speed trans. They did that LS on 4 speeds too?

867 is a 6 or 8 speed. 

[Handy Don 12,213]

14 hours ago, wallfish said:

I thought those limited slips are only 8 speed trans. They did that LS on 4 speeds too?

The LSD function is entirely within the differential. I know there have been posts about replacing a 10-pinion LSD with an 8-pinion but I don’t recall any posts about putting a the 10-pinion LSD into a 3-speed transaxle.

@squonk, @stevasaurus?

[ebinmaine 67,427]

9 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

The LSD function is entirely within the differential. I know there have been posts about replacing a 10-pinion LSD with an 8-pinion

 

I considered putting a 10 pinion LSD in my C160 Automatic while that was apart. 

I had the Differential out of the 1970 Charger hydro.  

I didn't have good axles though.  

 

8 speed went back in the Automatic.  

 

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

 

10-pinion LSD into a 3-speed transaxle.

@squonk, @stevasaurus?

 

 

That can't be done without specialized machinery because the axle shafts are different sizes.  

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,717]

I'm not really sure what the issue is you guys are talking about.  Here is what I know...

1.  Three speed transmissions do not and never did have a Limited Slip capability.

2.  All Limited Slip transmissions have 1 1/8" axles.

3.  All Limited Slip differentials have 5 bolts holding the differential together.  (10 pinions)

4.  The #5060 and the #5071 are Limited Slip from the factory and are called the "6" speed transmissions because the brake drum is mounted on the mushroom gear.

5.  The #5073 transmission is a Limited Slip transmission that is called an "8" speed.  The difference...the brake drum is mounted on the cluster gear shaft.

6.  Any of the "3" Limited Slip transmissions can be made into an "8" pinion transmission by changing out the "10" pinion differential and the mushroom gear for the ones used in an "8" pinion transmission.  Changing out those parts gets rid of the Limited Slip function.  The Limited Slip function is all about "10 floating" pinions and the spring.

 

Like Eric said...one way to test for a LS trans is to jack axles off the ground and "slowly" spin one of the tires forward.  Both should turn in the same direction.  Another way is to put the front of the horse against a tree or post and run it in a gear (1st) and see if both wheels spin in the same direction.  The best way is to open the trans and count the bolts holding the differential together.  If it is "5" bolts, it is a LS transmission.  

[wallfish 16,994]

3 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

I'm not really sure what the issue is you guys are talking about. 

@Sparky posted about checking the LS in his 867 which would originally have a 4 speed and NOT a LS. That's why I asked about it.  I don't know how it ended up about putting a LS in a 4 speed.

But apparently Mike put an 8 speed on his 867 so that changes things a bit so he wants to check if it's LS or not

[ebinmaine 67,427]

7 minutes ago, wallfish said:

@Sparky posted about checking the LS in his 867 which would originally have a 4 speed and NOT a LS. That's why I asked about it.  I don't know how it ended up about putting a LS in a 4 speed.

But apparently Mike put an 8 speed on his 867 so that changes things a bit so he wants to check if it's LS or not

 

867s have a 6 speed with Limited Slip. 

 

857 has the 3 speed. 

[Handy Don 12,213]

6 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

Quote

 

10-pinion LSD into a 3-speed transaxle.

@squonk, @stevasaurus?

 

 

That can't be done without specialized machinery because the axle shafts are different sizes.  

 

 

I think we were all tracking ok on 4-, 6-, 8-speed thing. The LSD test was a clarification for @Sparky and we’ve beaten that topic to death.

This "LSD in a 4-speed" diversion was my fault--just me being curious. The different axle diameters hadn’t occurred to me.

 

And to add to the confusion, my experience with the LSD has been that it is far more effective going in a straight line than on a curved path. It seems that once the pinions break the “sticktion” and start to rotate within their sockets, the “limited” becomes less limited. YMMV

[stevasaurus 22,717]

Don, you are correct.  The Limited Slip differential only works when going in a straight line...the regular differential built in takes over when turning.

  Here is what I see in the Wheel Horse listing PDF.  They do not show an 867.  They do show a 1067 and a 1267.  It looks like the "6" means a #5060 Limited Slip trans for the 1967 horses.  It would follow that an 867 would have a #5060 transmission in it.

   Question...did it come from the factory, or did someone put in the #5060 and call it an 867??  I guess that is what it boils down to,  without going back through this thread, do we know the history of this horse??  The other thing is...if someone did change the trans to a #5060, I would put decals on it from Terry and call it good.      American ingenuity...ome of a kind.  

[ebinmaine 67,427]

1 minute ago, stevasaurus said:

Don, you are correct.  The Limited Slip differential only works when going in a straight line...the regular differential built in takes over when turning.

  Here is what I see in the Wheel Horse listing PDF.  They do not show an 867.  They do show a 1067 and a 1267.  It looks like the "6" means a #5060 Limited Slip trans for the 1967 horses.  It would follow that an 867 would have a #5060 transmission in it.

   Question...did it come from the factory, or did someone put in the #5060 and call it an 867??  I guess that is what it boils down to,  without going back through this thread, do we know the history of this horse??  The other thing is...if someone did change the trans to a #5060, I would put decals on it from Terry and call it good.      American ingenuity...ome of a kind.  

 

An 867 is an original Wheelhorse model.