Armortek model build

[kpinnc 12,092]

On 1/24/2024 at 4:26 PM, Mickwhitt said:

Hi all.

Well I am awaiting a delivery from UPS on Thursday. The kit will arrive boxed up and the first job is to go through the packing list and check everything is present and correct.

I continued tidying the workshop today and I've just a couple of jobs to do before I even think about starting on the build.

 

Holey Moley nice shop! You don't need any parts, just make your own! 

[kpinnc 12,092]

On 2/8/2024 at 11:54 AM, Mickwhitt said:

First off is the transmitter. These days they are not merely a radio and receiver.  They are a powerful computermibob which has to be so that they can control incredibly complex quad copters etc.

 

I have that same radio. Upgraded to hall effect gimbals 5 years ago, and it still works great. I use mine for helicopters, drones, and airplanes. No buggies or trucks though. Probably a dozen models saved in the menu now. Haven't flown in a while. The "remote ID" requirements make it difficult. I'm not paying $300 for the module, I'll wait for them to come down in price...

 

Electronics have gotten much easier nowadays. The Taranis is a fantastic radio, and fairly easy to program if you need to. Using 2.4Ghz, you can get two miles range easy. 

 

Good luck, and I look forward to your progress! 

 

 

[Mickwhitt 4,642]

On 2/21/2024 at 2:11 AM, kpinnc said:

The Taranis is a fantastic radio, and fairly easy to program if you need to.

I'm glad I only had to programme it for steering, throttle and two switches o the lights and sound. Any more than that and I'd have been stumped lol. 

[kpinnc 12,092]

4 hours ago, Mickwhitt said:

Any more than that and I'd have been stumped lol

 

If you need it, RCGroups has some great (although lengthy) threads on it, as well as YouTube. 

 

Only trick os software versions. If yours is different from the video, they get a little confusing. Otherwise pretty easy. 

[Mickwhitt 4,642]

Only done a small amount in the Land Rover build as Mrs.W has decreed that the living room shall be stripped back to plaster and decorated. Jeez Louise, I only dudi it six years ago, this chick is high maintenance! 

 

Anyway, leaf springs.... this Landy has four of em. All built up from individual leaves, clamped in the centre with bolts to the axle casing. 

 

I can see the leaves crabbing and creeping during use as there is nothing else holding them in place other than the clamping force. Full size the springs would have a long bolt down through the centre of the stack. They would also have clamps at various places to stop the leaves being able to spin around that central pin. 

 

The model springs are made of thin, spring steel strips cut to length. There us no centre hole for a bolt. 

 

Question is how would you go about making a hole in hardened spring steel without ruining the temper? 

This is one spring unit held together with cable ties. 

[ebinmaine 67,629]

43 minutes ago, Mickwhitt said:

Question is how would you go about making a hole in hardened spring steel without ruining the temper? 

Can you disassemble that and use a punch? 

Or do you have access to  a machine shop with a "Piranha" hydraulic machine punch?

 

 

[Mickwhitt 4,642]

Now punching has been suggested by a few Web searches but it's not something I have any experience with, I'm strictly a drill kind of a hole maker.

 

Most suggest a HSS drill, with water as a coolant, very low speed and quite a bit of pressure. But it has its drawbacks.

 

Punching was the suggestion of people who had worked with spring steel quite a lot. 

 

The leaves as pictured are only held together with zip ties to keep them from getting all jumbled. So stripping them would be a piece of piss (sorry, that's an English slang term).

 

I've just sent for a pneumatic motor panel tool, it has a joggler for putting a lip on sheet steel prior to welding and a 5mm hole punch. 

 

 The next question is, can I make a new punch pin and collar for this tool in 2mm diameter to punch through the 0.8mm thick spring leaves one at a time? 

I'm thinking that if it will punch 5mm in plain steel it should manage 2mm in thinner spring steel. 

 

I've  bought some cobalt steel bits to try in the pillar drill if the punch idea comes to nothing. 

 

Any thoughts gratefully accepted as always. 

 

MICK. 

[ebinmaine 67,629]

25 minutes ago, Mickwhitt said:

Most suggest a HSS drill, with water as a coolant, very low speed and quite a bit of pressure. But it has its drawbacks.

 

That was actually my first thought. .. but with oil, not water. 

 

But the thin steel would have been tough to get through without serious dentage. 

 

How about holding the springs to a backer?

 

[Handy Don 12,237]

I’m assuming the point of this exercise is to have the springs be functional on the model.

My experience has been that spring steel is where drill bits go to die (as in expire, not thread).

I’d add a vote for punching. Ideally you have some scrap on which you can practice.

My second choice would be to use a thin strip of metal to wrap the leaves very tightly at their center, and solder the wrapper closed.

My third choice would be to sparingly use thick (as in near the end of its working time) epoxy under the wrapper to bind it to the center of the spring. Thick so it cannot seep in between the springs.

Edited February 27 by Handy Don

[kpinnc 12,092]

You might not need to get all the way through the leaves. Maybe just a carefully placed "dimple" on each one and bind them all with metal zip ties?

[Handy Don 12,237]

16 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

You might not need to get all the way through the leaves. Maybe just a carefully placed "dimple" on each one and bind them all with metal zip ties?

Great idea. I’d make a jig for accurate placement and use two dimples to keep them aligned 

[Mickwhitt 4,642]

All good ideas, I got hold of this here pneumatic punch today and I'm going to have a go at making a smaller punch and die to see if it will handle the spring steel. 

It's a pretty simple job to make a punch pin and a die out of silver steel and harden it to suit. 

The 5mm punch is so good, it knocked holes in 1mm steel sheet like a good un.

 

[EB-80/8inPA 1,655]

On 2/8/2024 at 11:54 AM, Mickwhitt said:

electrickery

That’s a wonderful word.  You’re quite the cunning linguist, Mr. Whitt.  Oh, and that’s a dandy shop you’ve got there, too!

[8ntruck 7,016]

You might try using the shank of a properly sized drill for the punch, if you can adapt the current punch holder to the smaller size.  Looks like you only need to punch 36 holes.

 

The clearance between the punch and the die will need to be on the order of 10% of the stock thickness of the piece being punched.  Disclaimer - it has been 5 years since I've worked with punches and buttons (matrix on your side of the pond), so I am working from memory here. 

Edited February 29 by 8ntruck

[Mickwhitt 4,642]

3 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

The clearance between the punch and the die will need to be on the order of 10% of the stock thickness of the piece being punched.

I did wonder about the clearance, the die the machine came with is 0.2mm larger than the punch diameter.  Also it has a wider diameter behind the punch hole, ie it has been relieved so that cut discs don't jam up and fall right out. 

This afternoon we will see if I can turn the necessary pieces. 

[8ntruck 7,016]

  too much clearance will produce a burr on the back of the hole.  Too little clearance will increase the force required to punch the hole and might cause the part to stick on the punch.  Ideally, you want to end up with 1/3 stock thickness sheared material and 2/3 stickiness breakout.  This is probably academic for your application, though.

 

I'm thinking that the relief on our production buttons started about 1 stock thickness below the cutting edge.  Again, this is subject to my previous disclaimers.

 

We were piercing holes in formed parts, so we were working with stock thickness variations around the edge of the hole.  Most of the time, a constant punch/button clearance would work.  But there were a few parts that were, ummm, interesting.

Edited February 29 by 8ntruck

[Mickwhitt 4,642]

Well, an hour in the shop and I managed to make a new punch and die for the air tool.

I did a little drawing so I'd have the dimensions to hand as I turned the parts. 

The silver steel turned really well and I left things slightly oversize so I could lap them after hardening and tempering.

 

The original 5mm punch and die are on the left, my replacements after heat treat are on the right. 

This shows the punch activated so you can see the 2.1mm pip of the punch in the die.

It cuts like a dream in steel plate, I haven't tried the spring leaves yet. Bit scared to give it a go to be honest. 

Job for tomorrow. 

[Mickwhitt 4,642]

These are the holes, there is a little burr on the back edge but nowt to write home about. 5mm as pinched wit the original tool  my 2.1mm holes.

 

 

then thers Mrs Whitt nagging for me to take pitchers of her in her dress for the big wedding... shes off the Thailand in a week or so to attend a friends tie up.

She needs to ask the girls if its the right dress. Too long for my taste, itd be dragging in the swarf lol 

ps, dont tell her i posted this, she will skin me alive ha ha. 

[wallfish 17,012]

2 hours ago, Mickwhitt said:

These are the holes, there is a little burr on the back edge but nowt to write home about.

I'm guessing that burr will fit snugly into the top of the next hole

[ebinmaine 67,629]

20 hours ago, wallfish said:

I'm guessing that burr will fit snugly into the top of the next hole

I can see the logic there. Might be a good side benefit.  

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,629]

23 hours ago, Mickwhitt said:

dragging in the swarf

 

Had to look that one up. 

 

 

Seems to describe vast portions of my life and general personality.  

[Mickwhitt 4,642]

The hole punch worked perfectly gents.

 

Fired straight through the spring steel, clean as a whistle.

 

No worn out drills or spoiled temper.

 

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,629]

Niiiiice!!

[Mickwhitt 4,642]

One spring punched and bolted as per your advice guys.

 

Looks pretty neat and if course nothing will be able to move out of line now.

 

[ebinmaine 67,629]

3 minutes ago, Mickwhitt said:

Looks...

 

 

Excellent! 

 

Square. Neat. Tidy. Well done.