Power Blade Angle

[pfrederi 17,727]

Never saw much need for power angle with 42 and 48" Blades.  now that I have a 56" from a D series on my Charger it does take a bit of effort to get the swing started..

 

Hydro lift is essential so as WH ponly provides one outlet that seems to be out.  have though about an electric activator...but I have one on my sweepster  Wheel horse to lift it and it is terribly slow .  Do not want to sit out in the snow/cold longer than i have to. 

 

Anyone have ideas for a reasonable set up that is fast acting??

 

 

Edited January 15 by pfrederi

[ebinmaine 67,426]

I thought about doing the same thing multiple times now so I'll be interested to see the responses here..

 

 

5 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

as WH ponly provides one outlet

 

I'm not even remotely a Hydraulics expert here so take this with a grain of salt. Can you run a T fitting off the powered side of the transmission so it could potentially feed two hydraulic circuits?

 

 

@Handy Don

[squonk 41,068]

Get a small GM power steering pump with remote reservoir like an 80's  Chevy Cavalier. Run if off of the PTO pulley. Add hoses and valve. Guy I knew did this to a JD rider many years ago. 

Edited January 15 by squonk

[oliver2-44 9,736]

The hydraulic valves on my 1974 C160 are stackable. I’ll try to get the brand when it warms up some. 

[wallfish 16,994]

If stackable valves that would work and be the nicest cleanest way to add a circuit.

Or the valves should have a PYD (Power Beyond) port which you can plumb from that to any manufacturer second valve.

It won't require a big diameter cylinder so a smalerl one is faster

[ebinmaine 67,426]

6 minutes ago, wallfish said:

cylinder

Would a stock Wheelhorse lift cylinder work?

[wallfish 16,994]

You would need to make and weld mounts. The one at the blade should be made to connect to the index part behind the blade. You don't want to connect the ram directly to the blade itself because if the blade trips hard enough it could bend the mount, rod or break something 

[wallfish 16,994]

4 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Would a stock Wheelhorse lift cylinder work?

It could but you need to find the right mounting points for that stroke. The stroke on those cylinders is short so mounting points would need to be tight to the fulcrum point to get enough indexing of the blade

Edited January 15 by wallfish

[ebinmaine 67,426]

2 minutes ago, wallfish said:

You would need to make and weld mounts. The one at the blade should be made to connect to the index part behind the blade. You don't want to connect the ram directly to the blade itself because if the blade trips hard enough it could bend the mount, rod or break something 

 

 

Good point.  

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,426]

How about dynamic loading of the blade while in use?

Example might be a one side only tripping or the edge kisses a rock/stump etc. 

You guys thinking of using the hydraulic cylinder as the load bearing point? 

Or use a mechanism to disengage the original locking pin so the load stays there?

[wallfish 16,994]

1 minute ago, ebinmaine said:

 

 

Good point.  

 

 

 

You can use 2 pieces of pipe or cardboard tubes that slides one in the other or anything that slides in a straight line to find good mounting points and for measuring the need/ wanted stroke. 

You want the stroke of the cylinder to end BEFORE mechanical limits or something will get broken or bend.

[wallfish 16,994]

Build the mounts strong and the cylinder can probably handle the load but a bigger cylinder would be better. There's always pros and cons to design

[SylvanLakeWH 25,535]

What about using the same rod that manually moves it now, only use the actuator to move it and just manually release it? Force is taken care of by the pin... 

Edited January 15 by SylvanLakeWH

[wallfish 16,994]

Just gonna throw this out there.

An air cylinder will be quick, easy to plumb and could be operated from a tire tank. But it will not handle those hard hitting loads so the pin would still need to be used to hold blade angle

2 minutes ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

What about using the same rod that manually moves it now, only use the actuator to move it and just manually release it? Force is taken care of by the pin... 

That's a good idea with using an electric actuator too. Because properly connected to the lift arm it would be faster than using one on the blade. The regular pin would take the impact hits!

[ebinmaine 67,426]

2 minutes ago, wallfish said:

What about using the same rod that manually moves it now, only use the actuator to move it and just manually release it? Force is taken care of by the pin......

 

That's a good idea with using an electric actuator too. Because properly connected to the lift arm it would be faster than using one on the blade. The regular pin would take the impact hits!

 

An electric linear actuator was one of the ideas I've tossed around in the past. 

 

[wallfish 16,994]

21 minutes ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

What about using the same rod that manually moves it now, only use the actuator to move it and just manually release it? Force is taken care of by the pin... 

Is this kinda what you're think'n Jim ?

[SylvanLakeWH 25,535]

Yes!

No load on the actuator from impacts etc.

Edited January 15 by SylvanLakeWH

[JoeM 7,873]

 A couple things to keep in mind. One, when the blade turns it tips. Need to keep play in the main pin. The hydro has plenty of pressure to turn the blade even with a short stroke. Need to keep play in the cylinder clevis too. eliminates binding on the cylinder. I took Heim joints used on a three point and welded them to the cylinder to allow play. When I turn the blade all the way to the stops I have to relive it some to make it float so it will follow the contour of the ground.  

The cylinder in the pic is 1 1/2 bore with a 1 inch rod. 

[Handy Don 12,213]

4 hours ago, wallfish said:

If stackable valves that would work and be the nicest cleanest way to add a circuit.

Or the valves should have a PYD (Power Beyond) port which you can plumb from that to any manufacturer second valve.

It won't require a big diameter cylinder so a smalerl one is faster

 

7 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

I'm not even remotely a Hydraulics expert here so take this with a grain of salt. Can you run a T fitting off the powered side of the transmission so it could potentially feed two hydraulic circuits?

 

Stacking valves (or a new 2-circuit valve) would be ideal. I don’t think the stock valves had that capability, nor did they have a power beyond port. (Frugal WH engineers.)

If you go with a new valve, be sure to get one circuit with float--that would let you do a hard link on the plow frame for down pressure when you want it but float when you don’t.

The capacity of the Sunstrand charge pump is more than adequate for another small cylinder. Be aware, though, that without an extra reservoir you’ll have to keep an eye on the the transaxle oil level when getting the new hoses & cylinder filled with the initial oil charge (if you use Pioneer-style quick connects the oil will stay in the cylinder and hoses when they are off the tractor).

Edited January 16 by Handy Don

[JoeM 7,873]

I have used the WH valves stacked on a Sunstrand Hydro with no issues. They are open center and the relief is in the pump. 700 psi.

 

I like that location John @wallfish pointed out for the cylinder. That would keep it close to the oil source and hoses shorter.

 

I am just wondering if the turning rod point on the blade could be extended a little to provide more leverage? Might be the cheapest solution. ??

[kpinnc 12,006]

Completely unrelated, but I used a dual spool from a D series on my Bronco. I had to make a bracket for it, but it goes in the same place as the factory single spool. It has always worked great with the standard hydraulics.

 

Edited January 16 by kpinnc

[ebinmaine 67,426]

On 1/16/2024 at 7:43 AM, JoeM said:

 that location John @wallfish pointed out for the cylinder. That would keep it close to the oil source and hoses shorter.

 

I am just wondering if the turning rod point on the blade could be extended a little to provide more leverage? Might be the cheapest solution. ??

 

 

Can you elaborate a little on that Joe? 

 

Are you talking about bringing a lever out to the side?

And then compensating for that extra distance maybe in the other end with the hydraulic piston?

[wallfish 16,994]

If it's going to use the existing rod link connection from the lever to the index of the blade, it will need to use the pin to lock it and absorb the force, or a beefed up rod. That 1/2" rod will bend and it's not designed to hold that kind of pressure pushing in on the right side of the blade.

 

Another possible way to lock blade position might be to use a 12v electric clutch or other type of electric magnet to lock the blade when using an actuator instead of using the pin. Just a flip of a switch. Or it can probably be wired to lock/unlock with the activation of the actuator too.

12v solenoid actuator in place of the pin

A bit more involved but food for thought

 

Edited January 18 by wallfish

[peter lena 8,610]

@JoeM  like your set up , as well as others ,  seeing that you are already  , way off the norm , just some detail / ease function , at every opportunity , will  also enhance , the entirety of it . looking at your plow swing base , have a helper , operate it , and watch for correction areas , did that on a number of experiments  , on horses , have HEIM JOINTS  on a number of movement spots , been the answer for leverage ease . Pete 

[JoeM 7,873]

2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Are you talking about bringing a lever out to the side?

I was referring to the manual lever, I was thinking a couple inches would increase the leverage. Of course the throw would increase slightly but I think it would still be manageable.

Pic from the bottom of the cat head