Starter Gen, how do you test power output.

[RED-Z06 2,221]

Figured id start a new topic because its not related to the regulator wiring.

 

My s/g is wired with 12v to Bat, Field to Field, grounded, and The bottom spade to Armature.  At key on start, one regulator contact opens, one closes, the 2nd contact arcs once the engine starts until you release the key...then that contact opens, the other closes.  I get 12.1vdc running.  I did the test where you spin up the gen then tap power to the Field momentarily to see if the Field brakes the armature and it did...so the Field coils are supposedly good.

 

I get 0 volts ac or dc out of the Field...granted im not entirely sure thats how it gets tested, i feel like i may have a bad regulator but im not sure how to test that.  Should i just buy a new reg/rec and try it or do yall know a way to test further?

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,072]

This older Kohler manual covers the starter/generator system.

 

[RED-Z06 2,221]

8 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

This older Kohler manual covers the starter/generator system.

 

It shows how to adjust the regulator air gaps and check the belt but i didnt see anything for testing the system when it's inop

[WHX?? 48,853]

Best way to check is see what battery voltage is when motor is off. Fire it up and recheck voltage. Should climb slowly depending on RPM. 

One can also put an Amp gauge in series with reg. center terminal and battery. If the SG turns the motor over chances are good it will charge. That just leaves a possible bad regulator. 

There are many manuals here on cleaning & setting the regulator.

Edited January 10 by WHX??

[RED-Z06 2,221]

11 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Best way to check is see what battery voltage is when motor is off. Fire it up and recheck voltage. Should climb slowly depending on RPM. 

One can also put an Amp gauge in series with reg. center terminal and battery. If the SG turns the motor over chances are good it will charge. That just leaves a possible bad regulator. 

There are many manuals here on cleaning & setting the regulator.

Battery is discharging while running, 0.3volt drop from sitting off.

[ri702bill 8,387]

This manual covers testing - and repolarizing...

Delco Remy Regulator Manual 1R-116.pdf

[RED-Z06 2,221]

19 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

This manual covers testing - and repolarizing...

Delco Remy Regulator Manual 1R-116.pdf 1.76 MB · 0 downloads

That's a fantastic manual.  I just went out and tried the repolarization test and it made a heck of a spark but still no output.  

 

The cutout coil is definitely working, but the regulator side never opens while running so per that manual its never getting the power to do so.  Could be the shunt portion is bad.  Ill test my old regulator, from 2002...see if it tests any different 

[squonk 41,171]

http://www.ruiter.ca/mc/info/PDFs/1R-116.pdf

 

Delco regulator service bulletin

[squonk 41,171]

Genny Service Bulletin

 

Delco Remy IMG-150 Service Bulletin.pdf

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,072]

Curiosity got the best of me. If checking generator output what is one looking for? Suspect the ones we see are 10 amp.

 

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,072]

You most likely have a ammeter to show the charge rate so running the engine at top rpm connect a spare 12 volt starter motor to the battery and see what the ammeter says. The starter motor places at least a 10 amp load on the battery that the regulator should sense and put out maximum amperage to maintain the charging volts.

For alternative loads you could use enough headlamps to create a 10 amp draw or add 12 volt heater fan motors or a combination of both.

A carbon pile battery tester could also be used to induce the load on the battery

[RED-Z06 2,221]

4 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

You most likely have a ammeter to show the charge rate so running the engine at top rpm connect a spare 12 volt starter motor to the battery and see what the ammeter says. The starter motor places at least a 10 amp load on the battery that the regulator should sense and put out maximum amperage to maintain the charging volts.

For alternative loads you could use enough headlamps to create a 10 amp draw or add 12 volt heater fan motors or a combination of both.

A carbon pile battery tester could also be used to induce the load on the battery

 

I got my voltmeter back working, sitting off, the battery has a static voltage of 12.7vdc, starting it dips ro 10.8, running 3600 it sits at 12.54, i put a 12v electric oil transfer pump on to load it, and it dipped to 12.3vdc.  I drained the battery below 12v and running 3600, it never recovered back above 12v.  Its not charging at all.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,072]

Do you have another battery you can try that is known to be good?

A failing battery can cause test results that make no sense.

[RED-Z06 2,221]

13 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

Do you have another battery you can try that is known to be good?

A failing battery can cause test results that make no sense.

This battery is out of my 416-H thats only a few months old, it can sit weeks and kick that onan over, i can put in a different battery though.  Im just getting not a lick of power out of that gen/reg.  If i manually open/close the regulator side contacts theres no arc, and no movement on the meter.

 

Here is video of the contacts

 

 

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,072]

Have you opened the generator up to check the condition of the brushes?

[RED-Z06 2,221]

30 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

Have you opened the generator up to check the condition of the brushes?

I haven't, I was told by Lincoln at A-Z that it passed the bench test and produced power, but that he didnt test the regulator, but would include it as untested.  We have only 1 electric motor company in town and they ruined the last one I took to them.  I watched youtube videos on it, they said if you power the armature to full speed then tap momentarily, power to the field, and it provides a noticeable braking affect, that the unit itself is good, i did that and it did just like in his video.  

 

I wish it was like a modern charging system...check ac voltage out of the stator, if its got ac into the reg and not charging..bad reg.

[RED-Z06 2,221]

I went back over the testing guide and if im reading it right, if i put a meter on the Load terminal and ground the meter, then ground the Field terminal..that should induce the generator to push the maximum 10 or 15 amps...right?  I should see my voltage spike on the meter?  I just cant understand if a bad regulator would inhibit that though

[pfrederi 17,743]

Grounding the F terminal should put a noticeable load on the engine and the voltage should go up to about 14.  if it doesn't then you have a generator issue.  if it does do that then it is the regulators fault.

[RED-Z06 2,221]

15 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Grounding the F terminal should put a noticeable load on the engine and the voltage should go up to about 14.  if it doesn't then you have a generator issue.  if it does do that then it is the regulators fault.

Ill do that then, it looks like i leave everything hooked up to the regulator while i do that, does that sound right?

[RED-Z06 2,221]

47 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Grounding the F terminal should put a noticeable load on the engine and the voltage should go up to about 14.  if it doesn't then you have a generator issue.  if it does do that then it is the regulators fault.

Well it put no load on it, i pulled the back plate off the gen and the brushes are only about 25% worn, both move, the commutator is clean with no accumulation between the plates.  The Field post has continuity to ground...and I feel like its not supposed to do that.  So my gen is bad.  Wonder how hard it is to find field coils that fit.

[squonk 41,171]

Did you read the bulletin I linked? The F terminal will have continuity to ground thru the brushes and commutator.

 

[RED-Z06 2,221]

31 minutes ago, squonk said:

Did you read the bulletin I linked? The F terminal will have continuity to ground thru the brushes and commutator.

 

Read...yes, fully comprehend, probably not.  If i isolate the brushes with paper, then it should have no continuity if the field coils are good right?

 

Isolated the brushes and no continuity to ground and the A and F posts have continuity between them...begs the question if the Field coils are good, why did Grounding F do nothing 

Edited January 12 by RED-Z06

[squonk 41,171]

It only takes 1 wire inside a coil to give you continuity. Many wires could be broken. Do you have a shop near you that specializes in Auto/Farm electrical That can check it the right way?

[WHX?? 48,853]

Field coils are common as dirt but a PIA to replace. those screws are in there tight.

I would try a new reg first. 

 

http://www.psep.biz/store/kohler_starter_motors.htm

[RED-Z06 2,221]

1 hour ago, WHX?? said:

Field coils are common as dirt but a PIA to replace. those screws are in there tight.

I would try a new reg first. 

 

http://www.psep.biz/store/kohler_starter_motors.htm

Cant get either of his sites to work, i ordered the same reg off ebay a few minutes ago, will take a week to get here.