‘57 Pontiac Star Chief

[Pullstart 62,829]

@8ntruck suggested a new thread, and I concur.  I picked up this ‘57 Star Chief.  347/Auto 4 door.  The car runs and drives but has it’s flaws.  My vision is to finish up some active projects, and then get going on this.  A short list, is the Ford Taurus engine, my bathroom trim, our wet bar, the FEL, and a couple other customer projects.  The car is also buried by the camper in the barn, so there’s that timing too.

 

 

 

 

I’d like the interior to stay as stock looking as possible.  I’d like to keep the patina.  Some modifications to the body will be necessary.  I’d like this to be a Mad Max style resto-mod.  I have a beautiful rust free 2001 Chevy 2500HD chassis.  Being extended cab short box flavor, it’s 143.5” wheelbase is a bit longer than the car’s 124” stretch.  This would place the rear axle about mid-trunk opening.  Perfect location for a drop in 5th wheel hitch!  As mentioned in the hot rods thread, the leaf spring hangers are indeed a bit long for this pipe dream, extending about 5” past the bumper’s current location.  We’ll figure something out.  Possibly there are shorter spring options as Chevy tended to use many different spring orientations and lengths.  Maybe we will need a 4 link and air bags to allow bobbing the frame.  More on that later.

 

These are my wheels and tires from the truck frame, that will be used on the project, in their very accurate mocked up positions via roof tape measure on the floor.

 

 

 

 

 

[Pullstart 62,829]

Yes, I would like this to sit on a truck frame.  Capable of hauling my camper.  Trunk lid on hood pins or the like, it could be removed for road trippin.

 

The entire trunk floor will need to be rebuilt.  The gas tank from the truck will be utilized.  I would like to keep the car body as close to the truck frame as possible.  I realize the frame designs are like apples and MTDs.  Not much similar here, but it’s just metal.

 

I mentioned the body, and wanting to preserve patina.  And Mad Max.  I do plan to cut and paste like Richard mentioned.  Doing body work on Mrs. P’s “Frank” 1073 custom, I have the confidence to do this without bondo (or heavy bondo that is).  We’ll see if I keep the battle scars from cut and paste, or not.

Here’s a bit of context with @PeacemakerJack on the ideas for notes.  
 

He’s a wealth of knowledge on Pontiac history!  Feel free to chime in Josh 

 

[Pullstart 62,829]

Now, engines.  Hmm.  I have a bus.  I have convinced myself it won’t leave our property as a bus.  I might as well use the engine and transmission! It has 134k miles.  6.7 Cummins and Allison 2000.  It’ll have it’s own challenge.  We’ll get there.

 

 

[Pullstart 62,829]

@953 nut Richard’s art work for reference.

 

The wheel wells will need to move to make it look correct.  I hope to be able to massage them in without making them a hack job.  Precise cuts, symmetry, taking my time.  I totally got this!

Edited December 29, 2023 by Pullstart

[953 nut 55,155]

27 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

the leaf spring hangers are indeed a bit long for this pipe dream, extending about 5” past the bumper’s current location.  We’ll figure something out.

How about a fake continental kit to extend the bumper location?     Rather than a shiny new tire cover an old hog trough would make a statement.  

[Pullstart 62,829]

Never heard of such a thing, but I did wonder about building a step.  Great idea!

[953 nut 55,155]

4 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

Never heard of such a thing, but I did wonder about building a step.  Great idea!

That is why you young whippersnappers need to keep us old coots around, we can give you all the advice you don't need!           

[ri702bill 8,309]

I see potential here - I'm referring to the car !! Might just be easier to do a LS2 or 3 swap - very reliable, plenty of power & torque.

Have you thought about splitting the difference on the wheelbase?? Move the rear axle forward a bit - you will need to alter the driveshaft anyways....

As pictured, the looong wheelbase will have a turning radius like the bus!!

[Pullstart 62,829]

4 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

I see potential here - I'm referring to the car !! Might just be easier to do a LS2 or 3 swap - very reliable, plenty of power & torque.

Have you thought about splitting the difference on the wheelbase?? Move the rear axle forward a bit - you will need to alter the driveshaft anyways....

As pictured, the looong wheelbase will have a turning radius like the bus!!

If the frame is kept stock, I can prove that it has the same load capacity as a stock truck.  That’s my ultimate goal.  Diesel will be the way to go.  I have it laying around anyway and makes it an even better road tripper.  Turn radius?  It’s 2’ shorter than Norman.  I’ll manage 

[ri702bill 8,309]

The 57 Pontiac had a great history in NASCAR racing. Back in the days that they ran in February on the beach in Daytona. Loved the pictures and footage of the open convertible class with full rollcages (that must have made the fabrication & welding sooooo much easier). Picture below is of the late great driver Cotton Owens in 1957.

 

We used to have someone locally that took a 55 Chevy 4 door sedan, cut the top off, put in a full rollcage and a raspy glasspack exhaust - made a nice throwback retro street car...

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by ri702bill

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,297]

Everybody get in their comfortable chairs , this is going to be a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG build project. Bets on which comes first, project complete or Flip flops grand children . I had to go there @squonk and @WHX?? made me do it.

[ri702bill 8,309]

My money is on Eric's "Molasses" project being completed first.....

[Pullstart 62,829]

I do indeed have other things to take care of.  It’s a want, not a need.  Like @ebinmaine’s build, it’ll get there.  I have everything “in stock” for the build, within reason.  That’s helpful!

[ri702bill 8,309]

Kinda like the menu from a Chinese Restaurant... Pick one from column A, one from column B - you want duck sauce with that???

[squonk 41,050]

You needed something else laying around in the way. Shop looked empty! 

[squonk 41,050]

If all else fails, another movable chicken coop! 

[ri702bill 8,309]

1 hour ago, squonk said:

If all else fails, another movable chicken coop! 

I got the funny feeling that is the fate of the remnants of the bus once the engine and transmission come out......

[Achto 27,562]

Just spit balling here, but wouldn't it be easier to shorten the truck frame to fit the car body? It would put your hitch behind the axle but you could compensate for that with a heavier rear suspension. 

Edited December 29, 2023 by Achto

[Achto 27,562]

One other option. '57 Poncho united with a bus?

Some thing like this. 

[Handy Don 12,201]

I sure looks like that poor car hasn’t been stored out of the elements in a LONG time. For that alone, it’ll be thanking you!

[wh500special 2,168]

Odd project.  
 

25-ish years ago I used to spend a lot of time driving back and forth between St. Louis and Fulton Missouri going to our plant out there.  Almost every time on I-70 I’d see the same ugly brown 1970’s Ford LTD sedan pulling a flatbed gooseneck trailer usually loaded down with farm equipment of one kind or another.  
 

I always wanted to get a picture but who carried a camera in those days?

 

The gooseneck ball was mounted on the rear deck of the car just behind the rear window.  I don’t remember if there was any outwardly visible structural work on the car, but even passing the thing in the lane next to me it looked pretty stock. presumably there was something structural under the trunk lid, but people do crazy things. 
 

I was always wary of the rig so I didn’t linger around it, but I saw it on the road dozens of times over a couple of years so

the setup was apparently pretty robust.  
 

I thought for sure I’d find some mention or picture  of the contraption online somewhere but my searches all failed to unearth anything.  Our purchasing manager at work remembers it too, so I wasn’t hallucinating.  It was a normal looking car towing a big ol’ gooseneck trailer..certainly a bit of an oddity. 
 

I’m not really sure what my point is other than relating what I saw years ago. 

 

Steve

[ebinmaine 67,391]

16 minutes ago, wh500special said:

what my point is

I don't need a point. 

That's awesome.  

 

 

Hey @Pullstart I'm in. 

 

This'll be neat.  

 

 

6 hours ago, ri702bill said:

My money is on Eric's "Molasses" project being completed first.....

 

Man I dunno..... 

[wh500special 2,168]

I haven't given up my search for my LTD/gooseneck combo and in the meantime found that there are other options for adventurous Kevin:  Chevy Caprice with Roof hitch.  I think we posted the VW version of this before too. 

 

Maybe just polish up the Pontiac, fit the truck engine and transmission, put the suspension from a Corvette under it,  make sure the rain gutters are structural, put a hitch on the roof, modify the trailer to fit it...

 

Silliness aside, although this looks a little dubious it seems like putting the hitch pin just aft of center of the vehicle's wheelbase would contribute to a very stable towing experience.  Probably would be even better if it was FWD/AWD too as the whole rig would obediently want to track right behind the power axle.  Sideways push from cross winds or a passing semi would have to act on the whole car instead of wag its tail.  Panic stops would put more vertical load on all four vehicle tires instead of unloading the front wheels.  Hmmm.

 

Innate ugliness of 1970's cars not withstanding, I think they were onto something here.

 

Steve

 

 

[Pullstart 62,829]

9 hours ago, Achto said:

Just spit balling here, but wouldn't it be easier to shorten the truck frame to fit the car body? It would put your hitch behind the axle but you could compensate for that with a heavier rear suspension. 

Yeah… no…. 

[Pullstart 62,829]

15 hours ago, wh500special said:

Silliness aside, although this looks a little dubious it seems like putting the hitch pin just aft of center of the vehicle's wheelbase would contribute to a very stable towing experience.  Probably would be even better if it was FWD/AWD too as the whole rig would obediently want to track right behind the power axle.  Sideways push from cross winds or a passing semi would have to act on the whole car instead of wag its tail.  Panic stops would put more vertical load on all four vehicle tires instead of unloading the front wheels.  Hmmm.

 

Innate ugliness of 1970's cars not withstanding, I think they were onto something here.

The amazing difference between bumper pulling a 37’ camper and 5th wheel towing a 40’ camper is night and day.  Cut my dang 2” hitch off for all I care!  (Please don’t, I still haul other trailers too ).  I sure can imagine moving it further forward would create even more stability.  To explain my yeah, no or was it (no, yeah?) comment to Dan, Once again I want to stress the importance (to myself) of having a hitch centered over the axle like it’s intended.  I know plenty of people who haul 5th wheel and gooseneck with a regular cab long box, or an extended cab short box (as this donor frame is).  Having a shorter than Norman frame to start with will change many aspects of what I am used to on the road, but will remain safe as manufactured so not having any frame modifications.  As far as the camper will know, it’s being pulled by a stock Chevy truck.  Locating the hitch further back may change the dynamics of things enough that makes it not road worthy.  Less work your way?  Absolutely.  Better in the long haul?  Maybe not.