P220 Engine Reliability Question

[leeave96 487]

I’ve got 3 Wheelhorse 520H tractors and as far as I can tell the Onan’s are very good.  Smooth, fast to crank and powerful.  If there was a downside, they are thirsty engines.

 

Quite often you read of valve seats coming loose or surging.

 

Deere used an Onan P218 in their 318 garden tractor later in the run.  Does anyone know if these Onan’s had similar issues as those used in Wheelhorse tractor?

 

Just curious - Thanks!

[WHX?? 48,757]

Not sure if they did or did not but theory has it that horses had more problems because of the mounting configuration and blocking off cooling to the rear jug. Most others, Massey, Snapper, JD did not experience the valve issue to the degree that WH did. Engine was turned 90 deg. 

[RED-Z06 2,219]

The P220G in Deere 420s was just as problematic as the WH, Ingersoll, and other applications...rear/right cylinder intake seat is prone to coming loose, anywhere from 400 to 4000 hours...some will never do it, some will.  P218 and P220 shared blocks and its almost unheard of on the 218s.

 

My Deere 420 ate a seat around 700hrs, block was ruined to the extent it would have needed the port welded, machined out and a new seat pressed in.

 

Make sure the fins are clean, make sure the valve lash is kept in spec, ensure the runner oil filter to sheetmetal seal is in place...its all you can do.

 

When i was hunting an engine, i found 3, 2 were WH, 1 was JD, all had loose seats..i ended up buying an engine 900 miles away after the seller performed a compression test showing 125/125.

Edited December 3, 2023 by RED-Z06

[Streetrodchev 792]

The P series in the Deere did have the valve seat issues to, but I feel it was due to overheating. It is always on the oil filter side. 
 

Keep the cooling fins clean ( common oil leaks include the oil filter adapter and oil pressure sensor) and make sure the air seal is around the oil filter. 

[Ed Kennell 38,021]

3 hours ago, Streetrodchev said:

common oil leaks include the oil filter adapter

 

                                                                  The leak is so small it isn't even noticed.   But the oil is blown across the rear cyl. cooling fins causing a sticky film that collects the grass clippings and clogs the fins causing the overheating that throws the valve seat.

[WHX?? 48,757]

Oil leaking around the drain pipe to block connection has been reported more than once. 

[squonk 41,017]

Oil leaks?  HA!

 

I had a 520H with about 800 hrs. on it. Tall shoot blower and cab. One warm almost spring day I decided to clean the garage and drove the 520 out into the driveway. Cleaned the garage and when I drove the tractor back in I see a LARGE STREAM of oil in the driveway and garage floor. To see where the oil was coming from I had to remove the belt guard. Which meant removing the cab. Turned out all of the PTO side crank bearing plate bolts had loosened up and it dumped about a quart of oil in about half a minute.

 

Never again! If this happened whilst blowing snow I would have been done for

[RED-Z06 2,219]

Just now, squonk said:

Oil leaks?  HA!

 

I had a 520H with about 800 hrs. on it. Tall shoot blower and cab. One warm almost spring day I decided to clean the garage and drove the 520 out into the driveway. Cleaned the garage and when I drove the tractor back in I see a LARGE STREAM of oil in the driveway and garage floor. To see where the oil was coming from I had to remove the belt guard. Which meant removing the cab. Turned out all of the PTO side crank bearing plate bolts had loosened up and it dumped about a quart of oil in about half a minute.

 

Never again! If this happened whilst blowing snow I would have been done for

I serviced my 420 in September, mowed 3 times afterwards, pulled it into the shop and parked it for a few days.  Fired it up and drove it out to make room..and noticed smoke, i get off and its blowing oil out the grille and pouring out onto the deck.  Oil filter was not "tight".  But i could see that it didnt start leaking until about 15 seconds after startup.  So..didnt leak for 3hrs of use, then poured oil out.

 

If i hadn't seen the smoke from the oil on the muffler id have never known.

[pfrederi 17,650]

You see old K series engines that are coated in oil and crud...they don't seem to mind much just keep on chugging...My KTs don't seem to foul themselves  (other than the occasional mouse nest )

20 WHs no Onans and none in the future for me...

[RED-Z06 2,219]

5 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

You see old K series engines that are coated in oil and crud...they don't seem to mind much just keep on chugging...My KTs don't seem to foul themselves  (other than the occasional mouse nest )

20 WHs no Onans and none in the future for me...

KT people cant say anything about onans🤣🤣.  They didnt mind being covered in oil..at least something was getting lubed, because the rods definitely weren't 😆 (on the S1s)

[Jon Paulsen 290]

My lowly P216 (416-8) seems to always fire right up and ready to go. I've only ran it maybe 10 or 15 times, so the jury is still out on the valve seats. I'm keeping my fingers, toes and eyes crossed after reading this discussion. I do have a B&S 16 HP opposed twin I could use if this one goes South. I hope to not have to resort to that 

[squonk 41,017]

This is one of the bolts that loosened. There is like 6 or 8 of them. They were all loose! 

 

[Ed Kennell 38,021]

I rescued my '88 520H from a scrap yard death  over ten years ago.   Removed the tins and cleaned the fins clogged by the oil filter base plate leak. Pulled the heads and decarboned.

Replaced some badly corroded fuse holders and  a bad RR.     Vented the belt guard and added a cab. She's been plowing and blowing snow ever since w/o any issues.

[cleat 5,808]

9 hours ago, squonk said:

This is one of the bolts that loosened. There is like 6 or 8 of them. They were all loose! 

 

I will check all of mine but never had an oil leak there before. I wonder if someone had that apart and didn't properly torque it.

[mrc 810]

i have a clean low hour 520H.  (approx. 257 hours)   i vented the belt guard and belt guard mounting bracket.  i have a remote oil filter kit which i've yet to install.   i know horsefixer went to the remote filter setup.  anybody else with any experience with this?  all thoughts are welcome.

 

regards

mike 

[Jon Paulsen 290]

4 hours ago, mrc said:

i have a clean low hour 520H.  (approx. 257 hours)   i vented the belt guard and belt guard mounting bracket.  i have a remote oil filter kit which i've yet to install.   i know horsefixer went to the remote filter setup.  anybody else with any experience with this?  all thoughts are welcome.

 

regards

mike 

Mr. C., may I ask where you got the kit to remote locate the filter? 

 

I might like a kit.

 

Note to self: check torque on the @squonk bolts!

[Ed Kennell 38,021]

27 minutes ago, Jon Paulsen said:

Note to self: check torque on the @squonk bolts!

 

                                   Anyone know what torque setting?

[Handy Don 12,130]

23 hours ago, RED-Z06 said:

Oil filter was not "tight". 

Putting the oil filter in the cooling airflow ahead of the cylinder fins might not have been the most resilient design decision by Onan. Oil leakage or sloppy filter changes that encourage stuff to clog the fins (or not installing the rubber collar) can all lead to problems. Yet we see plenty of P220s running well into four-digit numbers of hours. 

I accept that these engines are a bit more particular. When it gets too burdensome, I’ll have to decide what to do next!

 

[cleat 5,808]

1 hour ago, Ed Kennell said:

 

                                   Anyone know what torque setting?

 

Manual calls for 310 in/lb or 26 ft/lb

 

Onan bearing plate.pdf

 

[RED-Z06 2,219]

2 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Putting the oil filter in the cooling airflow ahead of the cylinder fins might not have been the most resilient design decision by Onan. Oil leakage or sloppy filter changes that encourage stuff to clog the fins (or not installing the rubber collar) can all lead to problems. Yet we see plenty of P220s running well into four-digit numbers of hours. 

I accept that these engines are a bit more particular. When it gets too burdensome, I’ll have to decide what to do next!

 

Weird part about that oil filter coming loose was, i did all the onan oil changes at the same time, same method, i use a tool to snug them because you can barely get your fingertips on them at the end.  And it didnt leak for all that time.  Yet it poured out.

[lynnmor 7,302]

2 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

Weird part about that oil filter coming loose was, i did all the onan oil changes at the same time, same method, i use a tool to snug them because you can barely get your fingertips on them at the end.  And it didnt leak for all that time.  Yet it poured out.

Apparently you are using the short filter, use Onan 122-0800 or Fleetguard LF3339.  The short filter will not properly hold the rubber grommet in place.

[RED-Z06 2,219]

2 hours ago, lynnmor said:

Apparently you are using the short filter, use Onan 122-0800 or Fleetguard LF3339.  The short filter will not properly hold the rubber grommet in place.

Im using the LF3338 and Wix XP equivalent on my Onans, the lf3339 is an inch longer and it hits the side panels on the deeres and is next to impossible to get in and out on the 416-H.

[squonk 41,017]

26 ft. lbs. isn't worth a hill of beans. No wonder they loosened up! 

[lynnmor 7,302]

3 hours ago, squonk said:

26 ft. lbs. isn't worth a hill of beans. No wonder they loosened up! 

26 is plenty for those aluminum threads.  Onan says to use oil on the threads so going higher in torque is asking for stripped threads.

[WHX?? 48,757]

I forget the coorect number but NAPA has a filter that is the longer one but one also has the wrench hex on the end. 1762, 1764 or 1374? Any one of those numbers at a Napa counter should get it crossed.