worn woodruff keyslot

[matt monte 132]

well.......this is a 1st for me.  was field stripping a trans for my b80 winter resto project and came across this. of course i spent 40mins heating up belt pulley and removing that and grease soaked brake drum then this hub. i should of put together something was up when i could spin hub on axle a quarter turn each way. Other than bringing axle to a machinist, i cant see how i could fix this on my workbench. i guess i could try mig welding it in place, but then its "forever". I have a few 8 speed trannys i could use, one from a 308-8, other from a c-125  but no provision for the high/low shift arm on the B80 shifter plate. didnt want to spend hours attempting to cut and modifying plate. looking at the woodduff key it looks like some ham fisted "mechanic" sent the stop bolt on hub into the key many lifetimes ago. Any thoughts on a decent fix?

[WHX?? 49,131]

 @Ed Kennell has a trick for putting a brass  key in ... welding in it. 

Me I would pull it apart and put a full length key in the axle if it wasn't too far gone. 

It's really a crapper no matter how you look at it. 

A donor axle? 

 

[Ed Kennell 38,598]

55 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

 @Ed Kennell has a trick for putting a brass  key in ... welding in it.

Yep, I ground a brass bar to the shape of the woodruff key. Clamped it in the slot and welded around it to restore the slot shape.    Used wet rags around the axle to keep the seal cool.  Then hand ground and filed the shaft to shape using prussian bluing and the hub as a gage.    I agree with Jim, It would be better to remove the axle and cut a full length keyway.

Actually that should have been done from the factory

[ri702bill 8,479]

5 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

Yep, I ground a brass bar to the shape of the woodruff key. Clamped it in the slot and welded around it to restore the slot shape.    Used wet rags around the axle to keep the seal cool.  Then hand ground and filed the shaft to shape using prussian bluing and the hub as a gage.    I agree with Jim, It would be better to remove the axle and cut a full length keyway.

Actually that should have been done from the factory

If the axle diameter inside at the bearing and seal is OK, why not weld up the wallowed out area and cut a new keyslot on the opposite side - providing that the shaft is not too hard. Looking at the damage, I would say not.

 

Matt - do yourself a big favor and add a second setscrew 90 degrees to the original in the hub. HUB - is the keyway in the hub OK or not???

Edited November 30, 2023 by ri702bill

[matt monte 132]

i didn't look at the keyway in hub, most likely damaged.Ill check later today. Interesting viewpoints regarding the fix. Thank you. ill finish tear down and go from there. Doubt this was a factory error which means Hub was removed at some point,why? Gentleman i purchased B80 from said it was his dads that was bought new. Never saw it running. Was stored partially covered since the 80's under a carport. Judging by overall appearance and how dirty air cleaner filter was i suspect lousy if any PM during its life, some sort of trans issue, shoddy attempt at a repair, continued use causing the keyway slot damage. It boggles my mind on how someone would spend the money for such a nice machine and treat it so poorly. If u could put person in time machine and bring them to a present day lowes/HD and show them the absolute garbage garden tractors being sold for top dollar perhaps these would of been taken care of better!

[matt monte 132]

jeez i just saw the topic of fixing this that ed posted awhile back. i apologize for not taking a minute to search this. im usually not "that guy" oh well noted for future postings!

[matt monte 132]

just went out to garage and checked hub, appears to have zero damage,odd. not sure how i would make a brass keyway but have no problem welding. i found a brass bar ive used in the past as a punch, maybe i can cut a chunk out 

[WHX?? 49,131]

Odd that the keyway was damaged. 95% of the ones I pull the softer cast hub is damaged. 

I can put new keyways in hubs and yes the second set screw.

[JoeM 7,874]

Don't forget about the A-Z taper lock hub.  A little pricey but works.

If your shaft has more than a couple thousands wear it will put all the stress on the key and the fix will not last long.

This WH 522xi axle was repaired with a taper hub from A-Z. The shaft was worn 8-10 thousands and it was at the limit of the hub but has held up real good. 

[ebinmaine 68,205]

5 hours ago, JoeM said:

Don't forget about the A-Z taper lock hub.  A little pricey but works.

 

That was my thought as well. 

 

Might be the most efficient way.  

[Howie 892]

I also made up a brass piece, welded up the axle. Only difference my axle was out

of the tranny, just put it in the lathe and cut it down. Cut a new keyway in the hub and

added the second ser screw.

 

[matt monte 132]

Im fine with my mig welding skills but not sure how to go about making a brass woodruff key from scratch that doesnt look like a drunk blacksmith from the 1800's made lol leaning on just replacing seals on a known good 8 speed and donating current trans to a fellow WH enthusiast. wish ed lived closer

[matt monte 132]

I know everyone has been anxiously awaiting an update to my woodruff key dilemma so here goes. I swapped a complete axle from a donor trans. I had a locked up trans from a 308-8. Some internal casting pieces broke off and got wedge in the gears. Always wonder why it stopped working, now i know. The whole assembly fit into the guts of the B80 trans so im assuming im good? I ask because the axles are definitely a couple of inches longer, usually this is a good thing lol. All buttoned up. was gonna spend today cleaning her up and removing old seals. Ive played this game before, using a o-ring pick to remove while assembled, very annoying but doable. I took a close of pic of brake drum shaft. Are my eyes going or is there no seal in place? would make complete sense considering the massive amount of oil sludge buildup in this area. 

 

[ebinmaine 68,205]

59 minutes ago, matt monte said:

Are my eyes going or is there no seal in place?

Can't say as I see one either.  

Considering the scraping of the case there it's possible the seal outer surface is gone but leaving the inner ring. 

I don't even see that.  

 

1 hour ago, matt monte said:

The whole assembly fit into the guts of the B80 trans so im assuming im good? I ask because the axles are definitely a couple of inches longer

 

The axle assembly from an 8 speed is wider than the same from a 4 speed.  

 

 

[matt monte 132]

idc if its slightly wider as long as it works. figured out a way to remove seals quicker and easier. if u take notice to the mangled seal, i spent 25mins picking at it with those 2 little red handled picks, was a complete nightmare. i stopped, took a ride to AutoZone bought those longer o-ring picks for $13. i then drilled a small hole in seal and was able to use it as a fulcrum  of sorts and longer handled pick to pull them out. was able to get the other 3 out in an additional 20-25mins.  much easier with zero drama. be careful with drill. as soon as u feel it cut thru, STOP.

[ebinmaine 68,205]

You did good on those seals. Nice job figuring out a better method for yourself.  

 

I was shown a way that involves a long thin flat screwdriver with  careful placement and drive. 

This WILL destroy the seal every time. That said, I wouldn't be likely to be removing a good seal.  

I tap the screwdriver into the outer  edge of the seal from a fairly wide angle.  Keep working your way round.  It makes small dents in the seal eventually causing it to become loose.   

 

[Wayne0 505]

On 11/30/2023 at 2:55 PM, JoeM said:

Don't forget about the A-Z taper lock hub.  A little pricey but works.

If your shaft has more than a couple thousands wear it will put all the stress on the key and the fix will not last long.

This WH 522xi axle was repaired with a taper hub from A-Z. The shaft was worn 8-10 thousands and it was at the limit of the hub but has held up real good. 

Split taper bushings are the cats ass! We used them at work on all the machinery.

[ebinmaine 68,205]

3 minutes ago, Wayne0 said:

On 11/30/2023 at 2:55 PM, JoeM said:

 

   

Split taper bushings

 

Agreed.  

I've used them for inner pulleys as well. Works good.