Starters

[Jimmy G 10]

Hello and hope all had a blessed Thanksgiving. Wondering if the starter off my 8hp Kohler engine is the same as my 14hp Kohler. Both are I believe mid 70's Wheelhorse tractors which are the cast iron engines. They look size wise the same. Any help would be appreciated. Just don't want to pull them both to find out I can't use the 8hp starter on the 14hp.

[ebinmaine 67,516]

I believe the flanges are different from a big block to small block. 

 

What's wrong with the existing starter?

It's fairly easy to rebuild one as long as the major components are there.  

 

Just as a point of information, Wheelhorse didn't have a 14 HP in the mid 70s.  

GT14 and Bronco 14 were both gone by the end of 1972. 

1973 I'm not sure. 

1974 has no 14 HP I'm aware of. 

After that it was around 1980 before there was another.  

 

There were 12 HP and 16 HP during that time period.  

 

 

[ri702bill 8,324]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

I believe the flanges are different from a big block to small block. 

 

What's wrong with the existing starter?

It's fairly easy to rebuild one as long as the major components are there.  

Agreed on both....

If either of the 2 curved bonded magnets are cracked or damaged, the shell is toast.

Edited November 25, 2023 by ri702bill

[Ed Kennell 38,178]

Is the mounting flange the same?    The big blocks used the high mount starter where the mounting flange was on the bottom.  Was the small blocks flange on top of the starter?          

[953 nut 55,246]

The flywheel on an eight HP Kohler is smaller than the one on a fourteen HP. The number of teeth and diameter of the Bendix Drive is also different. The starter on a "Big Block" (ten HP or more) will be the same as a fourteen HP.

[Ed Kennell 38,178]

 

 

14 hp

 

 

8hp

 

 

 

 

[squonk 41,120]

Yes the little blocks are different

[Jimmy G 10]

7 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

Is the mounting flange the same?    The big blocks used the high mount starter where the mounting flange was on the bottom.  Was the small blocks flange on top of the starter?          

Not sure. The reason for asking is I have an 8hp that is way back in my garage that I had used parts off of and wanted to ask the question before I move a bunch of stuff if it won't work. It sounds like from others Las that it won't work. I had my 12 hp tractor that the starter was rebuilt so sounds like that might be the way to go. Thanks.

[Jimmy G 10]

10 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

I believe the flanges are different from a big block to small block. 

 

What's wrong with the existing starter?

It's fairly easy to rebuild one as long as the major components are there.  

 

Just as a point of information, Wheelhorse didn't have a 14 HP in the mid 70s.  

GT14 and Bronco 14 were both gone by the end of 1972. 

1973 I'm not sure. 

1974 has no 14 HP I'm aware of. 

After that it was around 1980 before there was another.  

 

There were 12 HP and 16 HP during that time period.  

 

 

The starter seems to have a lot of play in the shaft but when I try to start it gets stuck in the out position engaged to flywheel. Won't come back . I lubed the twisted shaft and worked for a bit but now stuck in and won't retract. Guess I will pull if off and have it rebuilt. Thank you for the reply and help.

[Jimmy G 10]

9 hours ago, ri702bill said:

Agreed on both....

If either of the 2 curved bonded magnets are cracked or damaged, the shell is toast.

Don't think there is damage to the shell or magnets. Just stuck out and won't retract. Sounds like I need to have it rebuilt. 

[Jimmy G 10]

10 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

I believe the flanges are different from a big block to small block. 

 

What's wrong with the existing starter?

It's fairly easy to rebuild one as long as the major components are there.  

 

Just as a point of information, Wheelhorse didn't have a 14 HP in the mid 70s.  

GT14 and Bronco 14 were both gone by the end of 1972. 

1973 I'm not sure. 

1974 has no 14 HP I'm aware of. 

After that it was around 1980 before there was another.  

 

There were 12 HP and 16 HP during that time period.  

 

 

Sounds like rebuild time. It is stuck in the engaged position and won't retract. Been acting up a while but lubed the shaft and seemed to help but now stuck. The shaft also seems wobbly. Thanks for the info and help. I picked this up and it has a loader on it and the guy said it was a C-141 The seller said mid 70's and I have a C-121 that I have the tiller on and that is I believe a mid to late 70's from what I was told. Trying to learn as I love these old little tractors and not a lot of them around here in California where I am at. Like I said in the beginning when I joined Kinda of a newbie so appreciate all you folks that help out. Told the wife before I get to old I would love to go to one of the WheelHorse rallies that I have seen back in Pa. I believe. Again thanks for all your help.

[Ed Kennell 38,178]

1 hour ago, Jimmy G said:

8hp that is way back in my garage

The starter on the 8hp will not fit on a 14 hp engine.        The 12 and 14 hp starters are the same.

 

A new starter from Caltec is around $50.

[Jimmy G 10]

4 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

The starter on the 8hp will not fit on a 14 hp engine.        The 12 and 14 hp starters are the same.

 

A new starter from Caltec is around $50.

Thank You Ed. I see the starter on Amazon but wondering about the black cover? Does it have the same end as original where you have to use the existing spring and was he and nut? Removed mine and the shaft is really has a lot of sideways play and feels a little coarse when spinning it by hand. I assume you hold the gear and remove the nut? I sure appreciate all your help. Jim

[Ed Kennell 38,178]

If you buy the correct starter for your engine, you will not need to change the ends.   Do you have the serial and spec number for your engine.

[Jimmy G 10]

56 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

If you buy the correct starter for your engine, you will not need to change the ends.   Do you have the serial and spec number for your engine.

Ed I think what I am looking at is the rubber cover boot which in your picture like the one I found on Amazon is covering the spring and nut. Is that correct? My spec # 60322d. Model # K321AS and the serial # 9525426  I saw two on Amazon and one was like 45.00 and one I think was 55.00 as one was Amazon shipped and sold and one was shipped and sold by a 3rd party and longer ship time. Am I correct by thinking the rubber cover covers the spring and nut? You don't know how much I appreciate all your help. This is a blessing having a forum for someone that does not have a lot of WheelHorse experience. I am a retired general contractor and mechanically inclined when I have the knowledge. So again a big THANK YOU.. Jim

[Ed Kennell 38,178]

11 hours ago, Jimmy G said:

Am I correct by thinking the rubber cover covers the spring and nut?

Yes, that is correct Jim.

[Jimmy G 10]

5 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

Yes, that is correct Jim.

Thanks. I ordered one that looks like the picture and shows that it replaces the OEM number. Again Thank You for your help..Jim

[Jimmy G 10]

On 11/26/2023 at 12:18 PM, Jimmy G said:

Thanks. I ordered one that looks like the picture and shows that it replaces the OEM number. Again Thank You for your help..Jim

 

On 11/26/2023 at 6:55 AM, Ed Kennell said:

Yes, that is correct Jim.

Ed received my starter today and installed and thing works sweet. Fires the old Wheelhorse right up. Again Thanks for leading me in the right direction. Jim

[Ed Kennell 38,178]

4 hours ago, Jimmy G said:

Fires the old Wheelhorse right up

Great, nothing better than seeing a horse come back to life.   Now you can rebuild the old starter for a spare.

[ebinmaine 67,516]

4 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

Great, nothing better than seeing a horse come back to life.   Now you can rebuild the old starter for a spare.

 

Seconded.