310 Magnum Starter

[Dreamcatcher 102]

Hello,

Happy Veteran's Day all.

 

The tractor blew the fuse this morning.  I'm in the process of making sure my battery is strong since it hasn't been started in a few weeks.  I also replaced the fuse.  If it blows the fuse again I am guessing I need a starter.

 

To me it looks like I really need to remove the blower housing to remove the starter?  I was chatting with a local expert and he says I need to remove the fill tube, remove the bolts in teh L bracket and to nuts or bolts on the end of the starter.  I think I feel the fill tube  retainter at the base of he tube. I cant tell how the L braket plays in except where it connects to the power end of the starter.  The blower housing prevents any access to bolts/nuts on the business end of the starter so are these bots on the power end of the starter?  Any help on how to remove the starter would be greatly appreciated.

 

Lastly, in the event I need to replace it, does anyone have any suggestions on where to purchase?

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,046]

The starter motor will not blow a fuse because the heavy cable from the battery to the motor is not fused.

What model of tractor and serial number do you have so we can look at a wiring diagram?

What size of fuse is blowing?

[Handy Don 12,232]

1 minute ago, gwest_ca said:

The starter motor will not blow a fuse because the heavy cable from the battery to the motor is not fused.

What model of tractor and serial number do you have so we can look at a wiring diagram?

What size of fuse is blowing?

 

There is something else going on to cause the fuse to blow--a short circuit is most likely. Have you made any modifications or replaced any parts lately?

 

[Dreamcatcher 102]

5 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

 

There is something else going on to cause the fuse to blow--a short circuit is most likely. Have you made any modifications or replaced any parts lately?

 

No mods have been made.  I can say due to a big operator error a few weeks ago, the tractor ended up in the pond. It started and ran fine after pulling it out of the pond.  Water did NOT get in teh muffler or carb but the starter and relay/solenoid  probably got wet.

 

 

@gwest_ca it is a 310-8 with a Kohler M10.  Where do I find the serial numbers you are requesting?

 

[Handy Don 12,232]

17 minutes ago, Dreamcatcher said:

Water did NOT get in teh muffler or carb but the starter and relay/solenoid  probably got wet.

Uh oh.

Frankly, electrical components are unlikely to “just dry out” and cure themselves after a dunking. Still, you might have lucked out and the solenoid/starter didn’t get any water internally and might be ok. If you can, with a known good battery installed, run a jumper from the positive terminal directly to the small terminal on the solenoid so you can see if the solenoid and starter will crank the engine. (TRANSMISSION IN NEUTRAL of course since you are circumventing all safety switches for this test!)

If they are ok, you must embark on a careful trek through all the wiring and connectors and the fuse holders looking for worn wires, corroded connections, etc. and be prepared to fix what you find.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Handy Don

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,046]

Model and serial should be on a decal under the left side of the seat on the rear fender pan.

1987 was the first year to use the M10.

 

[Dreamcatcher 102]

8 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Uh oh.

Frankly, electrical components are unlikely to “just dry out” and cure themselves after a dunking. Still, you might have lucked out and the solenoid/starter didn’t get any water internally and might be ok. If you can, with a known good battery installed, run a jumper from the positive terminal directly to the small terminal on the solenoid so you can see if the solenoid and starter will crank the engine. (TRANSMISSION IN NEUTRAL of course since you are circumventing all safety switches for this test!)

If they are ok, you must embark on a careful trek through all the wiring and connectors and the fuse holders looking for worn wires, corroded connections, etc. and be prepared to fix what you find.

 

OK I will do this once my battery is fully charged again.  The electriical diags are not my strongest skill  .

[Ed Kennell 38,178]

Agree with @gwest_ca, a bad starter will not blow the fuse.        Follow @Handy Dons instructions to check the starter.

 

If you do determine the starter is bad, you do not need to remove the tins to remove the starter.

   Loosen the two long bolts that hold the starter together. They also thread into the block and hold the starter in place.

You do have to remove the oil fill pipe and the support bracket on the rear end of the starter.

[Dreamcatcher 102]

15 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

Model and serial should be on a decal under the left side of the seat on the rear fender pan.

1987 was the first year to use the M10.

 

I will check it out/.  The hood on my tractor says Classic on it if that also helps.

[Gasaholic 224]

7 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

Agree with @gwest_ca, a bad starter will not blow the fuse.        Follow @Handy Dons instructions to check the starter.

If you do determine the starter is bad, you do not need to remove the tins to remove the starter.

   Loosen the two long bolts that hold the starter together. They also thread into the block and hold the starter in place.

You do have to remove the oil fill pipe and the support bracket on the rear end of the starter.

On a Magnum?  Nah, I think you're thinking of the Command - Magnum starter bolts up same as K series 2 bolts and sometimes a throttle cable support bracket (keeps cable away from belt) plus disconnect the B+ cable from starter, should drop right out, can be a tight fit with the bolt-up oil fill tubes in the way but never needed more than a 3/8" , 7/16" combination wrenches and 9/16 socket & ratchet , to my recollection. 

 

Agree with the rest, blown fuse would not be from starter itself, since it is a semi-direct connection to the battery (via solenoid) , blown fuses would be caused by the smaller wiring (shorted switch, shorted solenoid, shorted safety switch, voltage regulator shorted somewhere, or a bad ground in one of the primary systems causing high resistance which can be as bad as a short. 

[Dreamcatcher 102]

Model: 3110K803

Serial No. 2000705

[Dreamcatcher 102]

19 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

Agree with @gwest_ca, a bad starter will not blow the fuse.        Follow @Handy Dons instructions to check the starter.

 

If you do determine the starter is bad, you do not need to remove the tins to remove the starter.

   Loosen the two long bolts that hold the starter together. They also thread into the block and hold the starter in place.

You do have to remove the oil fill pipe and the support bracket on the rear end of the starter.

To move the oil fill tube out of the way, do i just loosen/remove the fasters at the base of the tube?

[Ed Kennell 38,178]

4 minutes ago, Dreamcatcher said:

To move the oil fill tube out of the way, do i just loosen/remove the fasters at the base of the tube?

Yes, two bolts.

[Ed Kennell 38,178]

12 minutes ago, Gasaholic said:

On a Magnum?  Nah, I think you're thinking of the Command 

This is a Magnum 12.   Maybe a Mag 10 is different, but I doubt it.

 

Here you can see the long starter assembly bolts that also thread into the block bracket.

 

Here is the bolt that attaches the rear of the starter to the support bracket.

 

You can also see the piece of rubber hose around the oil fill pipe to isolate the 12volt lug on the starter.

 

[Gasaholic 224]

Hmm must have been later versions... I recall that starter mounting on Commands , but don't recall doing that on Magnums - But then I left the OPE business about the time Command came out (Moved on to Heavy Truck & Automotive) The Magnums I remember were pretty much just K series with magneto ignition. 

[pfrederi 17,739]

Be careful removing Magnum starters they can fall apart.

 

 

[Ed Kennell 38,178]

3 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Be careful removing Magnum starters they can fall apart.

 

Good point Paul.      I always use a shorter bolt and nut in the near hole to hold it together while removing and installing the long bolt near the block.

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,299]

Some of the starters do not have a threaded hole for the small bracket near the oil fill tube. I ended up buying a used starter and a new starter ( big bucks) when my starter on the 87 310-8 died. Both starters did not have the treaded bolt hole just the hole.. I thought the used starter was incorrect, so I purchased a new one . Both did not have the threaded hole.