314-8 transmission not completely disengaging

[John c 79]

The transmission has developed a habit now of not completely disengaging, with the clutch all the way in the machine will continue to move on smooth flat level surface, doesn't take much to stop it, but it also keeps the internals in the transmission moving to point the gears won't synchronize smoothly. the belt is 5/8 x 82 and has about 30hrs use on it

 

What do the resident 8 speed gurus think is causing this condition.

 

  

 

 

[Achto 27,742]

19 minutes ago, John c said:

What do the resident 8 speed gurus think is causing this condition.

 

Sounds like your belt brakes are not working properly. Check to make sure you have full movement on your belt tension pulley, and that tension pulley bearings are good. Check the belt brake tabs on you belt guard make sure they are close to the belt when it is tight.  All of the belt brakes should be with in 1/16" or less from the belt. There may be a belt brake on the tension pulley as well. 

[953 nut 55,734]

1 hour ago, John c said:

belt is 5/8 x 82 and has about 30hrs use on it

Is your belt guard in place with the lower portion of the belt being supported by the guard when the clutch is depressed? Has this problem come on recently or has it been this way for the entire time this belt has been in use? Is the belt fabric (Kevlar) wrapped?

[Handy Don 12,436]

1 hour ago, John c said:

causing this condition

Not long ago someone posted that extreme wear on the clutch cross-shaft was messing things up.

[ebinmaine 68,205]

Is a 314-8 one of the rigs with the gas damper for a clutch "spring" and would that being worn cause the OPs issue?

 

[daveoman1966 3,758]

Are you using the OEM belt?  An after-market belt MAY not have the same geometry.  

 

[ebinmaine 68,205]

23 minutes ago, daveoman1966 said:

Are you using the OEM belt?  An after-market belt MAY not have the same geometry.  

 

 

I've had that problem.  

I now use ONLY Wheelhorse belts on my 70s C series.  

 

[Ed Kennell 38,598]

The 1/8" roll pin that connects the left lever to the cross shaft has been known to shear and cause clutch problems.

[Rick3478 429]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

Is a 314-8 one of the rigs with the gas damper for a clutch "spring" and would that being worn cause the OPs issue?

 

Yes it is.  Not sure what year that started, but by mid '90s I think all the 300/400 8-speeds had that.  However I don't think that would make the belt keep moving.  Bushings or roll pin might do that, like other members suggested.  But here's another possibility - belt running on the wrong side of the guard/cover, making the belt effectively tighter.  One of mine did that one time, and I only discovered it by accident when taking the deck off to sharpen.  It had been like that awhile, and had the outside bottom of the cover polished to a nice shine.  Not sure how it happens, my theory is that a twig got sucked in and bounced it over the edge.  Drive was quieter after I put the belt back where it belongs.

[Racinbob 11,194]

14 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Is a 314-8 one of the rigs with the gas damper for a clutch "spring" and would that being worn cause the OPs issue?

 

 

@John c

Removing safety devices isn't recommended but those darn things were more of a drivability issue than safety. They tried three ways to utilize them. A damper used with the spring, a dampening stop with the spring, and a strut without the spring. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried some other combination along the way as well. Personally I would remove all that crap. Just use a 108035 spring on the left side of the transmission. That set up has safely worked for decades and still does. For tractors that use a 5/8" drive belt I would suggest using an OEM belt. Make sure the pullies are clean and the idler is in good shape. Then make sure the belt guard is in place and the tabs are adjusted properly as mentioned. Your problem should be solved. 

 

My first experience with the belt engagement do dads was in 2009 when I purchased my 2005. It only had 100 hours on it and I got it for an unbelievable price because I'm sure the guy didn't know what he had. I got it home and started mowing with it. It would come to a stop just fine but when I went to reengage the drive it had a very annoying delay. I had no clue as to why because I had never heard of those new fangled devices engineered by someone who probably never drove a Wheel Horse. Well, I tore into it and parts started flying. Nuff said. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Racinbob

[peter lena 8,716]

@John c  every related movement point , should be lubricated to move , an aerosol lubricant will make the rust run out ,  the clutch related end movement areas , are often solid rust , would also verify the DRIVE BELT IDLER PULLEY IS FREE AND SMOOTH , that undersize bearing , and " lubricant " in it , regularly fails , binds up ,  do not have any " gas dampers  "  on my tractors ,  spring and lubrication is the way to go . regularly see lawn tractors that are  rusty , solid , Pete

[John c 79]

OK,

 

I've figure out my issue, in a search for some way to get more belt slack I had removed the belt brake before I even knew it was a brake or fully understood it's purpose. 

 

I'm still wanting to come up with a way to disengage the transmission enough to allow the tractor to roll backwards down an incline using just the clutch. My next thought would be to try a longer belt, but how much longer would it need to be to allow for the slack necessary to let it slip in the trans pully, but still within the idler pullys ability to maintain tension enough to not slip under load ? 

 

Anybody ever been down this road before with any success

 

BTW.....This machine is '95 model labeled as toro/wheelhorse 314-8, it does have the hyd cylinder clutch dampner spring but that was shot when I got it 10 of so years ago,  

[ebinmaine 68,205]

16 minutes ago, John c said:

OK,

 

I've figure out my issue, in a search for some way to get more belt slack I had removed the belt brake before I even knew it was a brake or fully understood it's purpose. 

 

I'm still wanting to come up with a way to disengage the transmission enough to allow the tractor to roll backwards down an incline using just the clutch. My next thought would be to try a longer belt, but how much longer would it need to be to allow for the slack necessary to let it slip in the trans pully, but still within the idler pullys ability to maintain tension enough to not slip under load ? 

 

Anybody ever been down this road before with any success

 

BTW.....This machine is '95 model labeled as toro/wheelhorse 314-8, it does have the hyd cylinder clutch dampner spring but that was shot when I got it 10 of so years ago,  

 

 

My thoughts:

 

DO NOT get a longer belt. My experience shows me that's a PITA and does more harm than good. 

 

DO get the right WHEELHORSE belt and also replace the hydraulic cylinder with the old style 108035 spring as above. 

 

 

The tractor will likely roll back (or forward) when in neutral if the belt is correct and the system is working as originally designed.  

 

Note:

There ARE tractors that won't move much or at all when in any gear. Belt stopped or not. Or.. even when the shifter is completely disengaged.  

 

My own '74 C160 and Trina's 867 both have very little desire to move when not being driven by the belt unless the grade is headed towards steep. 

 

 

At least if you bring the tractor to a good working proper condition it'll do what it's supposed to... even if it won't roll...

 

[Handy Don 12,436]

5 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

The tractor will likely roll back (or forward) when in neutral if the belt is correct and the complete system is working as originally designed.  

 

Well said. Italic word added. 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Handy Don