Question for the 4/8 speed gurus...

[kpinnc 12,064]

First of all, I have only one 3 speed (4 speed) transmission. I have several unused 8 speeds, two of which are 1-inch axle versions.

 

My 701 has the only 3 speed I own. After dragging it out and beginning the work to get it restored, I think the transmission will be the worst part of it. I'm almost afraid to attempt to split it open, because it was completely stuck when I got it, and that was 20+ years ago. It's been sitting in the barn all these years. 

 

I always thought the brake drum was why it wouldn't roll, but that wasn't the case. Eventually it did break free and can be rolled, and after spraying penetrating oil into the fork area, it does begrudgingly shift. But, the input shaft is frozen solid. Today when I went to drain the oil to see how much water was in it, nothing came out.

 

So I'm likely going to find years of crusty red stuff on everything inside. I expected to have to replace bearings and seals, but I'm thinking now the smaller gears will be garbage.

 

So- just to calm my worrisome mind, I have to ask: how many of the gears are interchangable between the 4 and 8 speeds? I assume the diff, axles, and brake shaft but not sure about any others. I know the input shaft is larger on the 4 speeds, and obviously any high/low gears are not of any use for this.

 

Anyone ever robbed gears from a 8 speed to use in a 4 speed? I have one light 8 speed that the input shaft seal area was destroyed when the pulley dug into it so bad that the seal can't be replaced, so I have a donor of sorts. 

Edited November 7, 2023 by kpinnc

[ri702bill 8,324]

Not 100% sure, but SOME parts are the same. Download both transmission / tractor manuals. Grab a big coffee and compare part numbers.

 

Your 701 4 speed has the potential to get locked up in 2 gears at the same time - a fix was implemented in the 1965 model year. A flat on both shift forks to relieve a hydraulic lock. Why not juat swap to a 65 or later 4 speed???

[kpinnc 12,064]

3 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

Why not juat swap to a 65 or later 4 speed???

 

I don't have one, but know where one was a few years ago. If it's still there, I'll definitely get it. 

 

But if it's gone, I'm gonna have to do some rigging on what I have. 

[ri702bill 8,324]

13 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

 

I don't have one, but know where one was a few years ago. If it's still there, I'll definitely get it. 

 

But if it's gone, I'm gonna have to do some rigging on what I have. 

Got it. I did a mix & match on my 502 - and a 65 4 speed - no left over decent parts. The trash 4 speed is going into a "yard art" special......

[pfrederi 17,739]

It is not a huge issue to put a 4/8 speed in.  I replaced the 3 speed in the 753 with an 8 sp 8 pinion 1-1/8"  Need to cut some to get room for the high low shifter and new clutch rod..

[WHX?? 48,818]

You need to split the tranny and see what you are dealing with before anything. Might not be that bad at all. Little noisy but this one sees regular use. 

[stevasaurus 22,741]

kpinnc...I am going to PM you with my phone #.  Call me and also keep this thread going for those others that have an issue like this.  We can save your 701  transmission.  Promise.  

   Oh, BTW, about the only thing you could use from an 8 speed trans to use in a 3 or 4 speed is the cluster gear.  Here is the deal...being a 701, I am guessing that you just want it fo run?  That being said, I would bet that most or all of the gears are salvageable.  Electrolysis is your answer.  The process only gets rid of the rust, not the good metal.

   If those gears are trash, the gears that are in your 2007 trans are the same gears that are in any 5025 up to 5053.  

Edited November 7, 2023 by stevasaurus

[squonk 41,120]

Lincoln at A-Z might have gears too. Trans repair is pretty easy

[Horse Newbie 7,070]

[kpinnc 12,064]

2 hours ago, WHX?? said:

You need to split the tranny and see what you are dealing with before anything.

 

Absolutely agreed. I'm certain I'm just panicking since I wanted this tractor to at least be "correct" with minimal modification. 

 

1 hour ago, stevasaurus said:

We can save your 701  transmission.  Promise.  

 

Sounds great. I will call you tomorrow. 

[WHX?? 48,818]

Yep Steve is 100% correct. 

When I got into @Achtos 701 I couldn't believe his butchery. 

One of the capped bearings went toast so a PO tried to put in a bushing. Even went so far as to make a patch for the now open end. 

The machining where the bearing sat was all buggered up but just enough good machining to seat a new bearing and fill in with liquid (JB) weld. Not going to the moon here...

The first set of pics was for the 1055 project. Here's the 701.

More horror... 

 

Fixed!!!

Edited November 8, 2023 by WHX??

[kpinnc 12,064]

4 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Here's the 701.

 

Good grief! 

 

Somehow that makes me feel better. Hopefully mine isn't that bad, but even so.

[WHX?? 48,818]

8 hours ago, kpinnc said:

 

Good grief! 

 

I know... would be nice to open one up and just need minor cleaning. Last one the missus found me passed out & slumped over it with a wire brush in my mitt. 

8 hours ago, kpinnc said:

but even so.

It can be fixed!!!

Dan's my transmission queen and has a bucket full of parts and betting others do too. 

[squonk 41,120]

Did a couple of 3 spds last summer that looked like this after a diesel flush. 

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,741]

I sent you some pics of Brrly's 701...5007 transmission in the PM.  I can put them here, but I did not want to take away from your thread.  Maybe they will fit in later?  It was excellent finally talking with you.  Check out the picks in the PM...they are a little better shape then WHX's, but not by much.  Still came out like new.  

[ML3 1,203]

My 753 has 8sp installed in it. I bought it from Buckeyes here on forum. He did the swap. It looks & works great. I like it so much that I considered doing the same thing to my 654. 

[Handy Don 12,232]

1 hour ago, ML3 said:

My 753 has 8sp installed in it. I bought it from Buckeyes here on forum. He did the swap. It looks & works great.

Those of us with 6- or 8-speed round hoods know how cool it is!

[WHX?? 48,818]

Sorry Don not orginal = not cool. Easy to replace ...harder to restore. Take the challenge. 

[kpinnc 12,064]

4 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

It was excellent finally talking with you. 

 

Agreed and same to you sir!  

 

2 hours ago, ML3 said:

It looks & works great.

 

Yes it does look great! 

 

8 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Sorry Don not orginal = not cool.

 

Then all my machines are uncool, but I sure like them! 

 

I'm not a purist. This would be a meaningless hobby for me if I was, because original machines down here are extremely rare. Even this 701 won't be all original, but I want it as close at least to "correct" as I can get. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by kpinnc

[WHX?? 48,818]

50 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

original machines down here are extremely rare

Your excused... and not because Pullstart is coveting your Vanguards

 

50 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

this 701 won't be all original, but I want it as close at least to "correct" as I can get. 

We will help you. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by WHX??

[ML3 1,203]

8 hours ago, kpinnc said:

 

Agreed and same to you sir!  

 

 

Yes it does look great! 

 

 

Then all my machines are uncool, but I sure like them! 

 

I'm not a purist. This would be a meaningless hobby for me if I was, because original machines down here are extremely rare. Even this 701 won't be all original, but I want it as close at least to "correct" as I can get. 

I kinda agree w/kpinnc. My tractors don't have to be 100% correct although I do appreciate ones that are. The 8sp modification on my 753 can always be changed back with little effort. The 8sp definitely makes tractor more versatile if I were ever to use it. When I 1st saw all the tractors Buckeyes had (ended up buying 3 from him) I liked the 753 because it was "different" yet still looks like it was factory. 

[Handy Don 12,232]

16 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Those of us with 6- or 8-speed round hoods know how cool it is!

No knock on the “keep it original” thinking.

Frankly, I stand in awe of the folks who take the time and trouble to keep that or to do craftsman-level restorations.

Here in my garage, I have room for only one worker tractor and I need it to cover the gamut. My goal it to mine the spirit of WH, the ethos if you will, by channeling what I think their engineers would have done with the resources we have now to create a product that I’d buy/use. IMHO, if the 6-speed had been ready in 1964, it would have been in both the 854 and 1054.

 

[kpinnc 12,064]

3 hours ago, Handy Don said:

My goal it to mine the spirit of WH, the ethos if you will, by channeling what I think their engineers would have done with the resources we have now to create a product that I’d buy/use.

 

That's a well thought out description of every tractor I have.