1971 Raider 12 Project

[Lee1977 6,656]

56 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

 

Changing would mean drilling one additional hole in the frame between the two existing holes on each side.

 

 

My 1971 Raider 12 already had the center hole for the mid hitch. I didn't used the flat steel each side for the front hitch. I drilled the formed axle bracket for the front hitch and use a 5/8" spacer. Wasn't any fun drilling those holes that axle bracket is hard. 

 

[Maz91 202]

2 hours ago, Pullstart said:

 If you don’t get to it by then, I would be willing to trade you a hole-less hood for that one with the chains.  Too much character to change if you ask me!  
 

So awesome!  I’ve got three daughters, and they are all a blessing in their own way.  The oldest isn’t really ours, but she was our German Exchange student 10 years ago when they were 3,5, and 15.  We see her as often as we can, and she costs more than the other two combined so we can claim her 

Good info, thanks! If I can somehow make the show, I am definitely on for that deal! Looks like it’s about 7 hours away! I’ll make sure to keep the chain around. 
 

Looks like some field you have there! I love that you were able to bring your whole family in on the wheel horses. I’m hoping to find the way to guide my daughter to my interests too, which means getting her to listen to AC/DC and taking up guitar or drums haha. That said, I know she’ll be who shes gonna be and I’ll all for it. About 55 days to go! 

[Maz91 202]

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

As @Pullstart notes, the mid-hitch you have is complete but was only around for a couple of years. The PTO belt went directly downward from the engine and then under the tractor to the deck.

The newer decks have the PTO belt going forward to the mule (on the front hitch) which carries it around the front axle, and from there rearward to the deck. 

 

So the real question to you is: What deck do you plan to use?

The hitch you have will physically hold certain decks (if they are complete with all their parts!) "as is" (@gwest_ca might be kind enough to post the “compatibility” list 🙂).

The newest decks’ suspension systems require the newer style of mid-hitch that has a different lock/release mechanism (the deck suspension has a fork that fits over the lock release shaft). Changing would mean drilling one additional hole in the frame between the two existing holes on each side.

 

Pictures and model info on any deck you have will help a lot!

Okay, I’m following now. I actually did notice one or two pictures where the pto belt goes straight down as you described, but I’m guessing the fact that it’s not common is the reason I had a hard time finding info on my mid hitch. 
 

i don’t currently have a deck or any attachments so I can go either way with it. I didn’t initially plan to mow with this, just use it for snow removal and hauling.. But the more I look into it the more obsessed I become with this tractor and now I want to do everything with it !!
 

I have a functional mower already and can’t spend much time or money on anything right now so getting this thing set up to mow will have to wait. Luckily the grass won’t be growing for a while anyhow!
 

I really hate not being able to be self sufficient and figure this out for myself, so thank you for the intel! 

[WheelHorseNut 222]

6 hours ago, Maz91 said:

Lastly, any tips on filling the holes in the hood when I go to do the restoration?

When I used to weld up holes on sheet metal (I filled all the holes on my Mustang's inner fenders), I would use a piece of copper metal backing.  The weld doesn't adhere to it.  Of course, prepping the metal first -- angle grinder with flap disc on it or it it's thin metal, sand paper on an orbital or palm sander would work, clean the metal, use a piece of copper underneath, build the weld from the outside into the center of the hole.  The holes look small, so it shouldn't be too hard.

Flatten the welds and you should be good.

 

[ebinmaine 67,432]

3 hours ago, Maz91 said:

 

I really hate not being able to be self sufficient and figure this out for myself, so thank you for the intel! 

Don't sweat that. 

None of us are born knowing much of anything about these tractors.   

 

 

Just keep asking questions.  

 

 

[DCwom 78]

Well, Its nice to see someone has a Raider 12 in similar shape as mine. I inherited mine from my Dad, it does run and we use it to pull a cart around the yard. I'm currently trying to get the charging system back in working order so I don't have plug into a trickle charger after every use, although its fashionable now to have a "plug-in hybrid" I just learned about the breaker-less ignition, its not clear if my Raider 12 was converted, but it does have points now. While your hood has a nice chain ornament on it, mine has a cane holder, a spring loaded broom clip my dad mounted so he would have his cane when he tooling around the yard, if there's a story for the chain, its a keeper.

BTW, check the transmission for water since it was outside, my dad kept his under tarps, but the trans was still filled with water, I drained it and oil flushed it several times. I wish I could say my Raider looks better, but it doesn't, although it does run better than before.

[Handy Don 12,214]

8 minutes ago, DCwom said:

but the trans was still filled with water

Condensation is the culprit here. Only remedy is regular use to warm it up so the water vapor gets expelled plus regular oil changes. The handle of the transaxle dipstick is a hollow tube--that’s the vent.

[Maz91 202]

3 hours ago, DCwom said:

Well, Its nice to see someone has a Raider 12 in similar shape as mine. I inherited mine from my Dad, it does run and we use it to pull a cart around the yard. I'm currently trying to get the charging system back in working order so I don't have plug into a trickle charger after every use, although its fashionable now to have a "plug-in hybrid" I just learned about the breaker-less ignition, its not clear if my Raider 12 was converted, but it does have points now. While your hood has a nice chain ornament on it, mine has a cane holder, a spring loaded broom clip my dad mounted so he would have his cane when he tooling around the yard, if there's a story for the chain, its a keeper.

BTW, check the transmission for water since it was outside, my dad kept his under tarps, but the trans was still filled with water, I drained it and oil flushed it several times. I wish I could say my Raider looks better, but it doesn't, although it does run better than before.

Heck yea! That looks just like mine, coated in surface rust. That’s awesome that you have your dads machine with the custom cane holder. I love that. Are you planning to refinish it? Hope you get the charging system sorted out.
 

Thanks for the tip on the transmission. I don’t know how long, but this thing was sitting out in the open behind a shed the first time I saw it. I changed the engine oil and have gear oil so I’ll see what comes out. The engine oil was not new, that’s for sure!

[DCwom 78]

2 hours ago, Maz91 said:

Heck yea! That looks just like mine, coated in surface rust. That’s awesome that you have your dads machine with the custom cane holder. I love that. Are you planning to refinish it? Hope you get the charging system sorted out.
 

Thanks for the tip on the transmission. I don’t know how long, but this thing was sitting out in the open behind a shed the first time I saw it. I changed the engine oil and have gear oil so I’ll see what comes out. The engine oil was not new, that’s for sure!

Maz91,

Here is a thread I opened when I found water in my transmission, lots of good suggestions from other contributors, it really helped me. I did 2 kerosene flushes and a gear oil flush last summer/fall, and I should do another gear oil change over this winter now that I've logged a little time on 2nd oil fill. BTW, if you look at my past posts (from my profile), they are mostly related to getting my Raider 12 going.

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,432]

12 hours ago, Maz91 said:

transmission

When you get to that diesel/K1 flush ~

be sure to drain the transmission with the front of the tractor raised as much as SAFELY possible.  

There's a bolt in the center of the bottom of the transmission. That bolt's boss keeps fluid in the front of the case because the floor isn't flat.  

 

While you have the front in the air is the best time to grease the front axle as well. Permits better grease flow around the pin.  

 

[Maz91 202]

20 hours ago, DCwom said:

Maz91,

Here is a thread I opened when I found water in my transmission, lots of good suggestions from other contributors, it really helped me. 

 

 

thank you, I was tackling that today and that thread was really helpful. Got a good amount of water and chocolate syrup drained out of there. The shifter boot was ripped and this thing was sitting outside unfortunately. I look forward to checking out your progress on the raider 12!

 

10 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

When you get to that diesel/K1 flush ~

be sure to drain the transmission with the front of the tractor raised as much as SAFELY possible.  

There's a bolt in the center of the bottom of the transmission. That bolt's boss keeps fluid in the front of the case because the floor isn't flat.  

 

While you have the front in the air is the best time to grease the front axle as well. Permits better grease flow around the pin.  

 

Good advice on both. Saw what you were talking about when I got under the trans. Followed your advice and the steering moves like butter now. 
 

Looks like I have a little leak from the bowl on the carburetor too. I might rebuild that sucker. i went through the tractor a good amount this weekend and got a list of parts to order. Tie rods, shifter boot, etc. Overall I do feel it’s very solid the more I look at it and very high potential for restoration.. at some point! For now I hope it feels like plowing my driveway this winter!

[ebinmaine 67,432]

3 minutes ago, Maz91 said:

little leak from the bowl on the carburetor too. I might rebuild

 

I've been known to rebuild Kohler carbs for folks. 

I have an ultrasonic cleaner here. 

I keep all the parts in stock to get the jobs done. Gaskets. Rebuild kits. Replacement washers for the throttle shaft. 

 

If you're interested, send/bring it up. 

I'd be happy to help.  

 

[Maz91 202]

On 11/12/2023 at 7:45 PM, ebinmaine said:

 

I've been known to rebuild Kohler carbs for folks. 

I have an ultrasonic cleaner here. 

I keep all the parts in stock to get the jobs done. Gaskets. Rebuild kits. Replacement washers for the throttle shaft. 

 

If you're interested, send/bring it up. 

I'd be happy to help.  

 

Very much appreciated, sir! I ordered a carb gasket kit from Kohler along with the carburetor-intake gasket. I’ll be sure to let you know if I run into trouble. Which I probably will!! Makes me a little nervous hearing about throttle shaft washers!!

 

i have the fluids changed on this puppy and went to charge the battery but of course the battery is so flat the cheap little harbor freight charger won’t recognize there is a battery connected. I may just buy a new battery for it as I don’t know the age/condition of this one anyways. 
 

i kind of have 2 things sticking in my mind - This tractor still has its original WH turf saver tires. Some hold air and some don’t. All are very dry cracked. Do people usually make an effort to save the wheel horse tires or just say forget it and replace them? Especially in the case of the front tires, replacements cost only $30 more than a set of tubes. The rear tires are a bit of a different story as far as the cost. Someone has free tires listed on FB marketplace, so we’ll see where that leads and if not I may put inner tubes in the rears and replace the fronts. 
 

the second thing is, I’m really wondering if I should’ve ordered a head gasket so I can inspect the combustion chamber and cylinder before firing it up. Obviously it has ran within the last year-year and a half, but I still have some sort of worry that I’ll run it and score the daylights out of the cylinder or something. 
 

definitely would be interested to hear some feedback if anyone would like to chime in/has an opinion. 
 

im still on a quest for a snow blade (not a plow!! Haha) and I hope to have that sorted by this weekend. my goal is to get this thing operational as is until next summer when I can take it down to the frame. I ordered the carburetor gaskets, tie rods, a shifter boot, shifter knobs, a light switch for the dash, and a new spring for the clutch/brake or whatever the heck it is! Also going to swipe the seat off of my Simplicity 5212.5 (which came packaged with the WH) for now because the Simplicity has a REALLY long road to recovery. 
 

hopefully that does it for now! I appreciate everyone’s help and advice. Forums for other hobbies and topics are a lot less helpful and typically very rude about asking questions, so this place is truly awesome 🤘🏼 

[ebinmaine 67,432]

10 minutes ago, Maz91 said:

original WH turf saver tires. Some hold air and some don’t. All are very dry cracked. Do people usually make an effort to save the wheel horse tires or just say forget it and replace them?

 

Labeled "Wheel Horse" but badly cracked ...

To me, those are wall art maybe but not usable in that condition for long, if at all.  

 

13 minutes ago, Maz91 said:

the second thing is, I’m really wondering if I should’ve ordered a head gasket so I can inspect the combustion chamber and cylinder before firing it up. Obviously it has ran within the last year-year and a half, but I still have some sort of worry that I’ll run it and score the daylights out of the cylinder or something. 

 

Trina and I have started replacing the cylinder head gasket on every tractor we get into.

 

That said, check around the head gasket for oil or black spots especially on the exhaust side.

If it looks discolored, it should be replaced.

While you're in there you should hand plane the cylinder head. That's a little time-consuming but very easy to do.

 

 

[Maz91 202]

9 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

Trina and I have started replacing the cylinder head gasket on every tractor we get into.

 

That said, check around the head gasket for oil or black spots especially on the exhaust side.

If it looks discolored, it should be replaced.

While you're in there you should hand plane the cylinder head. That's a little time-consuming but very easy to do.

 

 

Yea I think I’m gonna just order a head gasket. I don’t see it taking very long (famous last words) and the peace of mind will be worth it. I saw that guy Norman from isavetractors flattening a head on YouTube. Maybe I’ll just grab a head gasket from his site and follow his process. 
 

Couldn’t believe it. The Kohler parts were already in when I got home. Crazy fast!

[ebinmaine 67,432]

11 hours ago, Maz91 said:

I don’t see it taking very long (famous last words

It's really not a bad job.

Remember to be cautious removing all the bolts.

TIGHTEN them before you loosen them. Breaks the rust.

This will be especially important on the two bolts that go into the sides of the head for the sheet metal and also the head bolts around the exhaust area.

 

 

Well you've got the head off and the carb off you might as well take a look at the valves and the breather. Only takes a few extra minutes and you're already there.

 

 

[oliver2-44 9,739]

As EB said, since you will have the carb and head off it’s a great time to pull and clean the breather. Also check valve clearance. When you pull breather pay attention/mark the top of each piece so you reinstall them the same way. The Kohler manual has a good diagram of the breather. 
I usually go one more step on a sitting tractor and pull the valves, power wire brush the stems. Then lap the valves in with lapping compound.
 

I also pull the flywheel and clean under it. It amazing how dirt and grease caked I find the stator under there. Even if you don’t pull the flywheel try to clean under there with low pressure air. 
 

Find the timing marks on the flywheel and mark them. I like to paint the area white then come back with a black paint pen or sharpie and mark the stamped line and letters. Sure makes it easier to see looking through that little timing hole when reassembled. 

With that you’ve done everting you can do short of pulling the piston. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by oliver2-44

[Maz91 202]

Do you guys know if a GT14 mower deck will fit my tractor? It looks like it will to me since I have the older mid mount and the deck appears to have the drive pulley oriented for the belt to come straight down from the pto. 
 

or would it make my life easier to get a newer deck, mid mount and mule drive? I know the little wheel on my mount is locked up. 
 

a mower deck is not my priority right now but I saw this pop up for what seems like a reasonable price so I’m just curious 

[pfrederi 17,729]

The frame of a GT14 is 1" wider than a Raider.  That may be an issue

[Maz91 202]

8 hours ago, pfrederi said:

The frame of a GT14 is 1" wider than a Raider.  That may be an issue

Good info, thank you. 

[ebinmaine 67,432]

@Maz91

 

Many MANY.... Possibly the majority ((??))  of Wheelhorses had decks when new. 

Lots of us use them for purposes other than mowing or buy a tractor specifically for another implement.  

 

Decks seem to collect.  

 

One will pop up.   

 

 

[Maz91 202]

Hey all. I picked up a work horse parts tractor near me because it had a mower deck, 48” blade, wheel weights, usable tires, a seat, mule drive and tach a matic hitches for my raider. Solid score for the price of a deck, I think. 
 

i noticed when pulling the mid hitch off of the work horse that there is this whole lift arm with a chain that does not exist on my raider. Based on the snow blade mounting video I watched, the link on the blade needs to attach to that long lift arm. Is that correct? Or is it different with the older machines? Hopefully if needed the arm from the work horse fits. 
 

Aside from all that i got my carb rebuilt, tie rods in, fluids changed, seat installed (from the work horse), fuel filter and clamps replaced and battery charged. Hopefully tomorrow I can get home with some daylight left, fire it up and take it for a spin. If all goes well I’ll try to get the lights working next. Anyone know off the top of their head what the Raider takes for a tail light bulb? 

[ebinmaine 67,432]

4 hours ago, Maz91 said:

noticed when pulling the mid hitch off of the work horse that there is this whole lift arm with a chain that does not exist on my raider. Based on the snow blade mounting video I watched, the link on the blade needs to attach to that long lift arm. Is that correct? Or is it different with the older machines? Hopefully if needed the arm from the work horse fits.

 

You can use the plow without the horizontal lift arm. 

That's how we run ours here.  

 

There's two options for attachment.  

The easiest is to run a chain from the tractor's rock shaft to the plow frame. 

You want to be sure to use a chain that's got center holes big enough to accept the 3/8" bolts or pins.  We use bolts because I like the tightness offered by a bolt. 

 

Another option is to get or make a Solid Down Pressure link.  

Those are a HUGE help when trying to scrape down snow that's very dense or been traveled on by vehicles. 

 

There are measurements here on the site somewhere. 

I believe they're around 11 1/4" center to center but check the real drawings.  

Solid links can be made from Heim joints with a section of tie rod between or from a piece of flat bar with pins or bolts in the right locations.  

 

 

[Handy Don 12,214]

6 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Another option is to get or make a Solid Down Pressure link.  

Those are a HUGE help when trying to scrape down snow that's very dense or been traveled on by vehicles. 

 

Just noting that the direct-to-rockshaft solid link is most practical on non-hydro tractors since the operator can easily adjust their “armstrong” force when the weight of the plow isn’t enough to do the job.

 

Not so easy with hydro tractors. Only a few hydro WHs have “float” built into in their lift control (GT14, C-195, D’s, and Xi’s?) that would let a direct-to-rockshaft solid linked plow move up and down freely to follow the grade. The rest would, using the slotted hole in the plow frame lift tab and with careful feathering of the lift control, permit the blade only a very small amount of float. For a hydro where extra “scraping” is needed, I’d suggest short-linking to the chain-lifted lower arm and adding weight to the plow.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Handy Don

[Maz91 202]

7 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

You can use the plow without the horizontal lift arm. 

That's how we run ours here.  

 

There's two options for attachment.  

The easiest is to run a chain from the tractor's rock shaft to the plow frame. 

You want to be sure to use a chain that's got center holes big enough to accept the 3/8" bolts or pins.  We use bolts because I like the tightness offered by a bolt. 

 

Another option is to get or make a Solid Down Pressure link.  

Those are a HUGE help when trying to scrape down snow that's very dense or been traveled on by vehicles. 

 

There are measurements here on the site somewhere. 

I believe they're around 11 1/4" center to center but check the real drawings.  

Solid links can be made from Heim joints with a section of tie rod between or from a piece of flat bar with pins or bolts in the right locations.  

 

 

Very well! Would I want to attach the solid link to the top hole in the photo? 
 

i will need the horizontal shaft to attach a mower, no? I was just checking the manual for my mower deck (toro 78345) and it looks like that lift arm is necessary for the install. Unless the chain directly to the shaft works for the deck as well? 
 

oddly on the toro master parts viewer for the Raider I am not seeing the horizontal lift arm in any diagrams. I’d love to see if I can swipe the one from the workhorse. Obviously not going to be mowing in New Hampshire any time soon, but I’d love to grab the parts off the work horse while I have it! 

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

Just noting that the direct-to-rockshaft solid link is most practical on non-hydro tractors since the operator can easily adjust their “armstrong” force when the weight of the plow isn’t enough to do the job.

I appreciate this info. This is a non-hydro tractor so I think I’ll go that route. I’ll search around here for the dimensions and make it happen! Is the lift handle supposed to lock in the forward position to hold the down pressure though? Mine does not. It locks in the rear position, but not the forward position it would be in when the plow is down.