crankshaft end play

[scotty 252]

Why would a rebuilt engine not have any crankshaft end play with shims in place? ive tapped both sides of the crankshaft to make sure the bearings were seated all the way

[lynnmor 7,361]

Maybe the builder used the wrong shims?

[squonk 41,576]

Tapping the crank only seats the crank to the bearing. The bearings need to also be seated to the block on the PTO side and the bearing plate on the flywheel side. That has to be done before the crank is installed.

[scotty 252]

I took it back apart check the bearings and still no end play could there maybe be a burr on the crankshaft where it rides on the bearing not allowing it to move?

[kpinnc 12,726]

On 10/21/2023 at 4:53 AM, lynnmor said:

Maybe the builder used the wrong shims?

 

Or one too few.

Edited October 27, 2023 by kpinnc

[DeepH2O 66]

So, I’m having this same problem! But, I only replaced my bearing plate (due to 3 of the cover bolts breaking off and I couldn’t remove them). I never removed PTO side bearing or crank. I have tried 2 shims/1 gasket. I have tried 3 shims/1 gasket. I have tried up to 5 shims PLUS gasket and still, no play! ZERO! The bearing plate is same part number and came from Lincoln at A-Z Tractor. I’m quite confident it’s the correct one. I brought the motor by a young guy at a small engine repair, right by my house. It baffled him too. His only thought was that some Kohler engines come with a “metal shim” and some without, and the bearing plate was built for one “without”. Here’s a picture of where he believes is a metal shim. I’m not confident in his theory. My only option now is to re-install old bearing plate and look for the “end play”. Then I have one of two options: 1. Take bearing plate to a machine shop and get the

 to try and drill and tap broken bolt holes. 2. Remove crank and look for this “metal shim” (which I can’t find in the parts manual). 
 

I hope somebody reading this has a solution of why the end play isn’t there with new bearing plate! 

[squonk 41,576]

All of the Kohlers I've worked on did not have that shim. The bolts breaking are due to either not enough end play ( like you have) ( bottoming out) or the bearings not seating in the block and end plate and onto the crank. The bearings are press fit. But the bolts thread into the block I don't understand why you needed a new bearing plate. I use grade 8 studs, nuts and washers to install the plate tightening the nuts in a criss cross fashion until they are torqued. I make sure there are no burrs on the crank and the bearings will press onto the crank without binding. Then fully seat the bearings in the block and plate. After the end play is set I take out the studs and install the bolts and re-tourq.

[DeepH2O 66]

13 minutes ago, squonk said:

All of the Kohlers I've worked on did not have that shim. The bolts breaking are due to either not enough end play ( like you have) ( bottoming out) or the bearings not seating in the block and end plate and onto the crank. The bearings are press fit. But the bolts thread into the block I don't understand why you needed a new bearing plate. I use grade 8 studs, nuts and washers to install the plate tightening the nuts in a criss cross fashion until they are torqued. I make sure there are no burrs on the crank and the bearings will press onto the crank without binding. Then fully seat the bearings in the block and plate. After the end play is set I take out the studs and install the bolts and re-tourq.

Yeah, you misunderstood me. I didn’t explain very well. The bolts I had break are the ones that attach the motor cover. Like in this picture. I had several of these break. I’ve tried everything I knew. Drilling, welding nut, etc. They really did “open up a can of worms!”. 

[DeepH2O 66]

The way you explained installing the bearing plate is exactly how I’ve installed it every time. 

[Gasaholic 226]

The way to check end play , because the crank and bearings fit quite snug together with the block - You first install the cover plate with NO gaskets or shims and get everything seated (OK to use bolts to bring it into place, but do not torque them much) then back the bolts out so they are loose, and measure the clearance between the block and cover plate with feeler gauges - that's your zero end play point, then you take gasket (typically a .020 thickness) and add shim gaskets to make up your end play. Normally I rarely ever needed more than one or two shim gaskets , if that to get the few thousandths of end play spec (I cant remember it off hand, but want to say .003-.008)  then you pop cover plate back off, add gaskets and you should have end play in spec, even if you can't get the crank to move side to side by hand. 

If you have way too much clearance between block and cover plate, then I'd be checking if I had the right bearings, cover plate, and crank, and inspecting cover plate closely to see if there was any damage in the bearing race area keeping bearing from fully seating. 

[DeepH2O 66]

10 hours ago, Gasaholic said:

The way to check end play , because the crank and bearings fit quite snug together with the block - You first install the cover plate with NO gaskets or shims and get everything seated (OK to use bolts to bring it into place, but do not torque them much) then back the bolts out so they are loose, and measure the clearance between the block and cover plate with feeler gauges - that's your zero end play point, then you take gasket (typically a .020 thickness) and add shim gaskets to make up your end play. Normally I rarely ever needed more than one or two shim gaskets , if that to get the few thousandths of end play spec (I cant remember it off hand, but want to say .003-.008)  then you pop cover plate back off, add gaskets and you should have end play in spec, even if you can't get the crank to move side to side by hand. 

If you have way too much clearance between block and cover plate, then I'd be checking if I had the right bearings, cover plate, and crank, and inspecting cover plate closely to see if there was any damage in the bearing race area keeping bearing from fully seating. 

This makes sense! I REALLY appreciate the advice. I will try this out, when I get home from work in December. 

[scotty 252]

11 hours ago, Gasaholic said:

The way to check end play , because the crank and bearings fit quite snug together with the block - You first install the cover plate with NO gaskets or shims and get everything seated (OK to use bolts to bring it into place, but do not torque them much) then back the bolts out so they are loose, and measure the clearance between the block and cover plate with feeler gauges - that's your zero end play point, then you take gasket (typically a .020 thickness) and add shim gaskets to make up your end play. Normally I rarely ever needed more than one or two shim gaskets , if that to get the few thousandths of end play spec (I cant remember it off hand, but want to say .003-.008)  then you pop cover plate back off, add gaskets and you should have end play in spec, even if you can't get the crank to move side to side by hand. 

If you have way too much clearance between block and cover plate, then I'd be checking if I had the right bearings, cover plate, and crank, and inspecting cover plate closely to see if there was any damage in the bearing race area keeping bearing from fully seating. 

Thank you! Exactly what i was looking for!

[DeepH2O 66]

On 11/3/2023 at 8:22 AM, Gasaholic said:

The way to check end play , because the crank and bearings fit quite snug together with the block - You first install the cover plate with NO gaskets or shims and get everything seated (OK to use bolts to bring it into place, but do not torque them much) then back the bolts out so they are loose, and measure the clearance between the block and cover plate with feeler gauges - that's your zero end play point, then you take gasket (typically a .020 thickness) and add shim gaskets to make up your end play. Normally I rarely ever needed more than one or two shim gaskets , if that to get the few thousandths of end play spec (I cant remember it off hand, but want to say .003-.008)  then you pop cover plate back off, add gaskets and you should have end play in spec, even if you can't get the crank to move side to side by hand. 

If you have way too much clearance between block and cover plate, then I'd be checking if I had the right bearings, cover plate, and crank, and inspecting cover plate closely to see if there was any damage in the bearing race area keeping bearing from fully seating. 

Finally getting around to trying this. Life’s been busy. Ok, so install and loosened as per your suggestion. The gap between plate and block is .025”. My gasket alone is .030”. So, would I just put gasket on with no shims and call it good? 

[Jon Paulsen 290]

I only know B&S, so you should look up your specified range. You're probably going to need a thinner gasket. For B&S you get 5 or 6 or 8 gaskets in a set, then by trial and error add or subtract with a goal in range. I prefer shooting for the bottom end of the range.