Mowing the Deep Stuff

[IthacaJeff 151]

WH'ers:

Thought you might enjoy this picture of my 15 year old doing some

brush-hogging with our incredibly beat up 416-8. We got this tractor

abou 6 weeks ago to do just this. We replaced the head after the PO

botched a helicoil job. After getting the tractor home and under close

inspection, it seemed apparent the tractor had at one time rolled or

something very heavy fell on it. (This was a good lesson in what

happens when checking out a tractor after dark!).

Anyway, the dash tower is trashed, the steering wheel broken (note in

the pic that we cut it), the seat support cracked, and the fender front

attachment points cracked. We put on a seat from TSC, got a seat

support from Ebay, and cobbled together some supports for the dash

and fender. . . she's ugly but mows like crazy with a solid 48" deck.

No, we did not mow the entire field behind the tractor, but we did do a whole

lot deeper stuff than the pic shows). My neighbor came by pulling a 15' batwing

mower and handled about 3 acres with ease.

We would, though, like to turn about 2 ac of this old farmland into a lawn.

Anyone have any advice on this? We got about 10-12" of beautiful topsoil

covered by about 1-2" of matted vegetation. The land is pretty level but

very bumpy, rutted, and pitted, and about 50 kinds of weeds. Not good for

a ballfield!

I'm thinking of having the 2 ac rototilled about 4-5" or so to get to the soil

beneath the dead stuff, and hopefully that will knock down the fescue

clumps and fill in the ruts and holes. And then seed and packed down with

a roller. If any of you have different advice I love to hear it.

Thanks,

Jeff in Ithaca

[wh500special 2,160]

It's amazing what a little tractor can do sometimes. Even MORE amazing what a larger machine can handle...

I did a similar conversion of rough field into lawn at my place. On a smaller scale though...perhaps an acre.

What I did:

1. RoundUp everything.

2. Wait a couple weeks for new weeds to germinate.

3. Roundup everything again.

4. Let everything die for a week then mow it as short as possible.

5. Drug a disc around with my utility tractor to break up and till everything under.

6. Raked the whole area by hand to remove big chunks of stalks, rocks, wood, etc.

7. Lightly tilled everything with the WH tiller to break up clods left from discing (I don't have a harrow for the big tractor). I tried to limit the tiller to only a couple inches deep since I didn't want the new lawn to be soft underneath.

8. Watched it rain for 2 weeks keeping me out of field.

9. After it dried and a few more new weeds germinated I lightly tilled the whole mess again.

10. Threw down lots of grass seed.

11. lightly raked.

12. Watered it daily until the grass seemed healthy enough to make it on its own.

If I'd owned a roller, I would have rolled it too.

I didn't have water available so put a 375 gallon water tank in my truck and watered with a 3 hp engine driven pump and a quartet of sprinklers. 375 gallons of water was a bit heavy for my truck but it handled it with grace and dignity. Took over two hours to fill the tank from the house spout, less than 20 minutes to pump it out thru 3 or 4 sprinklers at the same time.

It stayed pretty weed-free for the first couple of seasons after preparing it this way. Eventually I got enough blown in seeds that I had to treat it to keep them in check, but my hope for the "kill everything twice" approach seemed to work. I guess ideally after tilling it under I should have let weeds germinate and then kill those too, but I didn't. i should have incorporated some fertilizer too, but forgot to buy it.

I just redid an area in my front yard where I had a water drainage issue using the same method. i didn't disc it this time though and skipped the Roundup, just used a tiller and limited the depth. Seems to have worked well enough but the grass is struggling in the recent heat. Must be an order of magnitude more weeds this go around too.

Since I have lived in this house for 5 years, I have been bush hogging the rest of my property regularly. It has really made a difference in converting the rough growth to some kind of grass and is helping to control weed growth in my "lawn" areas too. I am now at the point where I am considering ditching the bush hog and swapping the big finish mower onto the back of the tractor. My problem is that I can bush hog the field even if the growth gets 5' high. But the finish mower will require much more frequent mowing.

I did my first project in the spring since I thought the rainy weather and cooler temps would help the new grass grow. Which it did. Fall probably works equally as well so long as you don't wait too long and have tender grass that is easy to frost kill. My second project had to be done now - in the heat of the summer - so I didn't have the luxury of waiting for conducive weather.

You're gonna get a lot of seat time!

Steve

[linen beige 14]

It sounds like Steve has given you a very good plan. The Round up application is critical. If you don't kill the seeds, you don't kill the weeds. You can probably rent a pull behind sprayer fairly cheaply.

If you don't have access to a tiller then maybe you could sponsor a plow day.

A few fellow garden tractor owners with turning plows would make short order of breaking up a couple of acres. Chances are at least one fellow would like to show off his discing prowess as well. That would get all the matted vegitation turned under and ready the surface for smoothing. It would also be a great way to meet some fellow enthusiasts and turn work into fun.

For final leveling a box grader would do great, but a cheaper method works just as well. A 6 to 8 foot section of chain link fencing, a few feet of chain and a couple of 4 foot sections of iron pipe or heavy angle iron or 4 X 4 posts can be used to build a drag. Attach one section of pipe/post to each end of the fencing and use the chain to attach one section of pipe/post to the tractor hitch. The fencing just lays flat on the ground and the weight of the pipe/post along the back edge stretches it out flat and holds it down as you pull it. An hour or so of pulling a good drag over broken and disced ground will level it surprisingly quickly. My house backs up to a park with a ball field that gets raked with a spike tooth harrow and dragged about every other week. They use a four wheeler to pull these and it takes about 45 minutes.

Spread some seed, add water as needed, and watch it grow.

[WheelHorse_of_course 99]

Your plan and the suggestions so far are good.

On the other hand, if you want to keep it simple you could do what my Dad did.

Mow the whole thing with the deck up. Mow it a second time with the deck as low as you can without too much scalping.

From then on mow it on a regular basis at about 3 inches. The grass will thrive but the weeds won't like it too much.

After about a year you should have (to quote Dad) "educated barn grass".

:thumbs2:

[linen beige 14]

Rolf, that works to some extent, but does little about the thatch or uneven ground. If there is ANY crabgrass there it will thrive when all the other grasses are cut short.

[plowmaster 0]

It sounds like Steve has given you a very good plan. The Round up application is critical. If you don't kill the seeds, you don't kill the weeds. You can probably rent a pull behind sprayer fairly cheaply.

If you don't have access to a tiller then maybe you could sponsor a plow day.

A few fellow garden tractor owners with turning plows would make short order of breaking up a couple of acres. Chances are at least one fellow would like to show off his discing prowess as well. That would get all the matted vegitation turned under and ready the surface for smoothing. It would also be a great way to meet some fellow enthusiasts and turn work into fun.

For final leveling a box grader would do great, but a cheaper method works just as well. A 6 to 8 foot section of chain link fencing, a few feet of chain and a couple of 4 foot sections of iron pipe or heavy angle iron or 4 X 4 posts can be used to build a drag. Attach one section of pipe/post to each end of the fencing and use the chain to attach one section of pipe/post to the tractor hitch. The fencing just lays flat on the ground and the weight of the pipe/post along the back edge stretches it out flat and holds it down as you pull it. An hour or so of pulling a good drag over broken and disced ground will level it surprisingly quickly. My house backs up to a park with a ball field that gets raked with a spike tooth harrow and dragged about every other week. They use a four wheeler to pull these and it takes about 45 minutes.

Spread some seed, add water as needed, and watch it grow.

a glysophate based herbicide will not kill seeds, only germinated plants, hence the regrowth. some weed seeds will stay in the ground for generations, only germinating from a trigger like a hard freeze, soil depth specific water ect. soil is a very complicated system. your best bet for keeping the weeds in check would be heavyly seeded grass seed like bluegrass and frequent mowing. as for prep i would just plow, disk with, across then with the direction of plow again. then a fine cultivators like spring teeth or drag harrows. a brillion type seeder is one of the best tools for seeding lawns.

ifin you cant do this yourself find someone you know with the tools and time and tell him specifically what you want.

this is how i prepare my fields for hay. i can mow most of my loamy soils well in excess of 15 mph with a discbine. its easy to say they are smoother than most ppls lawn. pool table smooth.

[IthacaJeff 151]

Gents:

That's some seriously helpful advice, though the thought of spraying 2 ac

of RoundUp gives me the jitters. . . despite what it says on the side of

the bottle, I'll trust my instinct to keep the stuff away from my 6 kids,

and live with some weeds.

Plowmaster, I think we'll be doing it your way and live with mowed weeds

among the grass. No big deal. Mostly looking for a smooth surface, as

the kids will eventually kill the grass in a pattern that will look very much

like a baseball field! Wouldn't have it any other way.

Thanks again,

Jeff in Ithaca

[WheelHorse_of_course 99]

If you have the time and tools you might plow/disc/plant now and put in Winter Rye. That will choke out weeds and will grow all winter.

Then next summer turn it over as a "green manure" and seed with grass.

:thumbs2:

[IthacaJeff 151]

Hi all:

I'd really like to hook a tiller up to my 416-8 (once I get it refurbished), but I'm

not sure if a tiller is up to the chores I have in mind. I'd like it to chew up unturned

and unplowed grassland, up to 1.5 acres. Eventually I'd have it settle down into

more garden-tractor like chores, like re-tilling a 1/4 acre plot every spring. The

soil, underneath about 3" of thatch, is about 10" of beautiful and relatively rock-

free topsoil.

My tentative plan is this spring to have a local farmer rototill/cultivate/chisel plow

about 2 acres of this dense grass, but frankly, I'd just as soon do it myself with my

WH. If the WH tiller is up to the task, then I could justify buying a tiller in place of

paying someone else.

What are your thoughts??

Jeff in Ithaca

Here is what the grass looks like after mowing with my then 14 year old son:

[CasualObserver 3,408]

Jeff... merging this with your old topic from last year.... you got some good replies last year... perhaps new eyes will give you some fresh thoughts.

[jtmoyer 1]

i think you can till it, but you will wear out your leg. 1st is to fast to till up new ground. and your tiller will want to push the tractor if it gets on top of the grass. it will be a slow process but i think it can be done. you will also have to go over it twice, but slightly offset to the first till. this will break out the ground in the middle of the tiller on the first pass.

good luck. it is getting warmer here almost 50 in a few days and i keep thinking about putting on the tiller. B)

[Kelly 1,029]

In my opinion plow it first, unless your soil is soft, the tiller will bounce around trying to dig into the ground, been there done that, after it is plowed it will do a nice job, and will be much easier on the tiller and tractor

[Rideawaysenior 25]

That thatch will end up wrapping up on your tiller shafts and limit the depth you can dig. I'd plow it up first and then till. Sounds like you have the right idea having a bigger machine come by to break up the soil. I did a couple of acres two years ago with a D160 on fresh sod. Never again. It was a slow process and very labor intencive with cleaning out the tiller tines from the over growth.

You might have some fun plowing it your self too. Find a single bottom plow and rear hitch setup for your 416. They are out there and that tractor is more then up to the job.

Jack

[rickv1957 72]

That takes a pretty tough lawn tractor to mow that stuff, ,Rick

[bmuone 15]

Hey Jeff....if it was me with that much fresh land to plow up I would hire it done for the first time. I'm afraid you would wear your tractor, tiller, and yourself out with unexpected problems. After that first time you should be able to handle it with that WH and get the results you and those kids want. You got the right attitude and I can't wait to see who hits the first home run on that field!!!

[6wheeler 603]

Hi Jeff, I agree here. Forget the roundup. The property looks like it was in a set aside program. I would have the neighbor moldboard plow it, in the spring. This will put the weed seeds in too deep to grow. Then double work it (disc) across the plowing, and then the same direction. That should make the ground fairly mellow. If the same neighbor also happens to have a drill with a grass attachment ask him to seed it for you. You then could find a 4' section of a drag and, maybe drag it yourself after its planted. This could be a great way to meet your neighbors and possibly make some good friends. Maybe barter some of the work as he may need some help from you in return. That works for me.. Good Luck

[IthacaJeff 151]

Gents;

Thanks for the great suggestions; not only with my first inquiry but also the

second regarding the tiller. I'll definitely go with hiring someone to till/plow

it up for the first go around.

You know, it is really exciting to have a plot of land and the opportunity to work

the soil. (And, of course, a tractor to help). Never knew what I was missin'

growing up in the concrete jungle of Southern California. It is quite comforting

to know that I can get outstanding advice from the members of this forum --

thanks for all your help.

Now looking forward to seeing the grass under the foot of snow!

Jeff in Ithaca

[sorekiwi 761]

Now looking forward to seeing the grass under the foot of snow!

I'm really looking forward to seeing my grass without the foot of snow!