Sunstrand 1136 or 1140

[ineedanother 1,369]

This could be a simple Q&A but I can't find the answer in other threads. Simply put, I want to put a 10 pinion L/S in my c160 and maintain the hydro lift. The L/S donor is powered by a 90-1136 without hydro lift. The c160 currently has a 90-1140 8-pinion. My questions are (1) what is the difference between the 1136 and 1140 which might answer question (2) which is how should I make the swap with my interest being the most capability for the c160 with what I have to work with? 

 

Thanks in advance, Randy

 

 

[ebinmaine 68,205]

I've had the same thought but didn't do the transfer because I didn't have good axles handy for the 10 pinion differential while I had the C160 transmission apart. 

 

You MAY be able to swap the differential instead of the whole assembly. 

 

 

It's VERY important to remember that there's a big difference in the way the differential is put together in the 10 pinion vs the 8 pinion. 

 

The pinion gears in the 8 are larger and quite a bit stronger. That's not the huge benefit though. 

In the 10 pinion differential the pinion gears are spinning freely BETWEEN the diff plates. 

The 8 pinion has them spinning in holes in the diff plates, not cups. This adds a strength to the 8 in addition to the larger gears. 

 

@Handy Don could explain it in a more technical way I believe. 

 

I'm not saying don't do it. 

Just keep that in mind.  

 

I may still do the swap myself. 

Trina's daily go-to working tractors both have Limited Slip Differential.  

Both of mine do not. 

We've physically demonstrated the HUGE additional traction her tractors have, many many times.  

 

 

[953 nut 55,734]

The hydraulic lift is a function of the Sundstrand pump/transmission unit and has nothing to do with the transaxle portion which is strictly a set of reduction gears. You should be able to swap the differentials depending on what bearings are in your transaxle. Some were made with the standard 1533 inner axle ball-bearings and some had the B348 roller-bearing with a race pressed onto the differential. The total assembled length is the same either way, just need to have compatable bearings.

 

Race for B-348

[ebinmaine 68,205]

51 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

. Some were made with the standard 1533 inner axle ball-bearings and some had the B348 roller-bearing with a race pressed onto the differential

Richard is there a way to tell on the differential which bearings it should have?

 

I have at least 3 10 pinion differentials I could use. 2 were separate from the transmission when I got them.  

 

 

[Handy Don 12,436]

On 10/11/2023 at 10:13 AM, 953 nut said:

You should be able to swap the differentials depending on what bearings are in your transaxle. Some were made with the standard 1533 inner axle ball-bearings and some had the B348 roller-bearing with a race pressed onto the differential. The total assembled length is the same either way, just need to have compatable bearings.

Do the axles attach the same way in both?

 

On 10/11/2023 at 4:47 AM, ebinmaine said:

In the 10 pinion differential the pinion gears are spinning freely BETWEEN the diff plates. 

The 8 pinion has them spinning in holes in the diff plates, not cups. This adds a strength to the 8 in addition to the larger gears. 

 

I am a fan of the LSD in the right situations.

I agree that the LSD can definitely help in straight line motion on poor traction surfaces but it is of less use when the tractor is turning (my personal opinion is that the designers had “dirt and snow” in mind--tilling, plowing, cultivating, and grading or “row crop mowing".

 

To recap:

- Pinion or bevel gears rotate only when the rear wheels are turning at different speeds

- In WH's non-LS differentials these gears rotate freely (the gears are mounted on shafts)

- In LS differentials, the pinion gears resist rotating using metal-to-metal friction so that the rear wheels want to turn at the same speed (the gears are not on shafts)

 

The LS pinion gears are held in place within close-fitting pockets in the diff plates by a spring. When the rear wheels start to rotate at different speeds (due to slippage or just simple turning) the pinions start to rotate. The spring forces the edges of each pinion’s teeth to rub against the sides of its pocket. The gears also twist slightly within the pocket and rub against the end plates. All this friction translates into resistance to the rear wheels turning at different speeds!

But be warned. 

The extra friction wears the LSD's pinion gears, the diff plates, spring, and diff end plates in ways an 8-pinion diff’s parts do not.

The extra friction (and the heat it can generate) are why LSDs must have more oil (note the higher fill spout that permits the higher fill level) than other transaxles and it should be changed more often.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Handy Don

[ineedanother 1,369]

14 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

You MAY be able to swap the differential instead of the whole assembly. 

 

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm thinking that moving the whole thing might be easier than splitting a case which would require removal of both anyway, and then some...

 

I guess it might be easier to ask if I can just swap the hydro lift from the 1140 over to the 1136, or should I move that pump and motor over to the L/S gear box.

[pfrederi 17,856]

13 hours ago, ineedanother said:

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm thinking that moving the whole thing might be easier than splitting a case which would require removal of both anyway, and then some...

 

I guess it might be easier to ask if I can just swap the hydro lift from the 1140 over to the 1136, or should I move that pump and motor over to the L/S gear box.

 

Other tan moving the control valve and hoses over from the donor unit you will have to get the implement valve out of the donor and swap it into the recipient.  You also have to move charge relief valve to other side.  Its all covered in the sunstrand Hydo manual.

 

 

[ineedanother 1,369]

8 hours ago, pfrederi said:

 

Other tan moving the control valve and hoses over from the donor unit you will have to get the implement valve out of the donor and swap it into the recipient.  You also have to move charge relief valve to other side.  Its all covered in the sunstrand Hydo manual.

 

That's what I needed to see @pfrederi The part numbers are the same for the 1136 and 1140 so I think that will be the simplest route. Thanks!