Spark Plug

[JoeM 7,874]

Working on a friends machine today, removed the spark plugs and they were pretty bad. Briggs ans Stratton brand.

I have seen these before and have not been to lucky because it seems they are always needing replaced. 

Usually use Champion, pretty much work good and are decently priced. Plus, Champs are a throw back to my drag car days.

Whats your poison, and why?

Anyone using those fancy new ones? Like E3

 

[953 nut 55,247]

The one on the left looks like it is oil fouled.    I have always been an advocate of Champion Spark plugs too. 

[J854D 137]

@JoeM, I am a Champion plug guy as well. I have always had good luck with them. Years ago when I was working at an auto parts store, a Champion factory rep put on an informative clinic at our store. I was impressed & learned a lot! Back then Champion was making components for other name brand spark plugs. That was also around the time Champion was having fouling problems across their line of plugs because their heat range recommendations were too cold. They revised their heat ranges to correct the problem, but they had a tall hill to climb to improve their reputation. The moral of the story is to always use a current spark plug catalog to get the latest plug recommendations and never trust an interchange. -JD-

[ebinmaine 67,516]

In my younger days I ran AC Delco , Ford Motorcraft, Autolite, Bosch, NGK. 

Had good luck with all of them. 

Really didn't get into Champion until a few years ago with the Kohler engines and Wheelhorses.  

They've been good too. 

 

What I DO NOT believe in is the aftermarket multiple ground strap plugs like split fire or similar.  

Spark will ALWAYS go to the path of least resistance. Plugs don't need more ground straps. 

YMMV.   

[lynnmor 7,307]

In recent years Champion has really gone downhill in quality, just look at the rough threads.  NGK looks like jewelry alongside the current offerings from Champion.

[RED-Z06 2,221]

Its hard to read a plug unless you know how the engine was previously ran.  If an engine is cold started and idled the plugs will usually be black because they'll never heat up enough idling.  Part throttle same way..not enough heat.

 

When im reading a plug to check the engines tune ill try to get it up to full speed for at least a couple minutes and put a load on it for at least a minute, then cut it off at that point.  If you idle it down, you dont get a good read.  

[WHX?? 48,817]

My biggest problem was always trying to get a reliable cross from Chumponions to another brand so H10s for big blocks and J8s for small blocks are ingrained in my head. 

[ebinmaine 67,516]

4 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

reliable cross from

That's the reason why some folks were resistant to using Champion back in the 80s and 90s. 

An auto parts sales rep once explained to me that Champion tried to consolidate a few heat ranges to save production costs. 

The engines on the lower and upper spectrum of the ranges would sometimes have issues.  

Those folks would not use Champion for years, if ever again.  

 

The right plug heat range in the right engine.... no issues.  

 

 

[JoeM 7,874]

13 hours ago, 953 nut said:

The one on the left looks like it is oil fouled

yep, thinking the valve seal is going bad.

This machine is one with 801 hours. The leak down was near perfect.

There has been issues with I think running lean. The muffler has been overheated and burned out. 

Someone was working on it but I am not sure what all was done, other than messing up the carb linkages. and carb bolts loose. It would only come up to 2500 rpm.

The carb had dirt issues for sure. low speed jet seemed like it was not working at all. cleaned up and adjusted the linkage and it runs pretty good, but noisy. 

It is getting an FEL transplant and I think it will run fine other than the muffler. 

Just a little back ground on this animal. 

 

12 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

An auto parts sales rep once explained to me that Champion tried to consolidate a few heat ranges to save production costs

Wonder if Champ made the Briggs plugs? 

[953 nut 55,247]

14 hours ago, JoeM said:

Anyone using those fancy new ones? Like E3

 

13 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

What I DO NOT believe in is the aftermarket multiple ground strap plugs like split fire or similar.  

Spark will ALWAYS go to the path of least resistance. Plugs don't need more ground straps.

I've never known of a lightning strike bypassing a tall tree in the woods to hit a short one. The path of least resistance will get the spark!

[pfrederi 17,739]

I use ABC plugs...Anything But Champion

 

Got burned twice on ones that would fire laying on the head but not under compression

[RED-Z06 2,221]

Back when E3 was trying to get traction, they contacted me to try to get me to carry their lineup. They had all these gimmicky claims, some were just outrageous.  On top of their claims was their pricing and lack of selection. They had like 5 models of plugs...and they averaged about $7 each.  They sent a trial package, 10 plugs..i had enough equipment on hand to give a fair shake to them and immediately i noticed a dramatic difference...harder starting, rougher idles, and my tractor at about 5hrs on the plugs..simply refused to start one day.  

 

Since then, if a piece of equipment comes in with an E3, i change it, and usually most of the running problems disappear.

 

I use alot of mega-fire plugs from Stens, failure rate is right in line with others (about 1 in 300), and Champion.  Hondas like NGK though.

[Gasaholic 224]

Mega-Fire is Sten's private label champion plug... The Briggs branded plugs had their plugs made to spec commonly by Autolite and/or Champion ...  There are certain cases where ONLY the OEM brand spec plug will really work (Such as NGK in Echo equipment, Champion H10 in 10HP and up Kohler K series & Magnum singles, Motorcraft plugs in certain Ford V8's in the 80's and 90's and 00's)  Has been my experience.  I almost always found that when there was a running problem with a "new plug" that was fixed by putting in a new NGK, the "new" plug was a Champion or Autolite , with very few exceptions as noted above - Often a performance issue can be fixed or improved on with a correct manufacturer spec (brand and stock number) spark plug where a Interchanged plug simply does not perform well... as a general rule in my shop we only used NGK plugs and it was extremely rare to have a comeback or premature failure of the plug (caused BY the plug) , and only for the very few specific applications would I stock any other brand but NGK. 

 

NGK was selected out of all the options we had at the time, because we didn't have a reliable distributor that carried Bosch - Nippondenso was pretty decent plug too, but slightly more pricey than the NGK - Then later on we started seeing a bunch of NGK failures coming in and we found that another shop had serviced them - We found they were buying bulk extremely cheap plugs off Alibaba , and those NGK plugs were counterfeits. (that shop was not in business too long, for other reasons- notably the fact that they started having a very high come-back rate and owner wouldn't back up the shop's repairs when they started costing him more than the low-buck prices he was charging- after he hired a full time tech to run the shop... and these days, talking with other still-working techs and small shop owners, I am so very glad I got out of the business when I did! Industry is going to h*** in a handbasket... ) 

[RED-Z06 2,221]

12 minutes ago, Gasaholic said:

Mega-Fire is Sten's private label champion plug... The Briggs branded plugs had their plugs made to spec commonly by Autolite and/or Champion ...  There are certain cases where ONLY the OEM brand spec plug will really work (Such as NGK in Echo equipment, Champion H10 in 10HP and up Kohler K series & Magnum singles, Motorcraft plugs in certain Ford V8's in the 80's and 90's and 00's)  Has been my experience.  I almost always found that when there was a running problem with a "new plug" that was fixed by putting in a new NGK, the "new" plug was a Champion or Autolite , with very few exceptions as noted above - Often a performance issue can be fixed or improved on with a correct manufacturer spec (brand and stock number) spark plug where a Interchanged plug simply does not perform well... as a general rule in my shop we only used NGK plugs and it was extremely rare to have a comeback or premature failure of the plug (caused BY the plug) , and only for the very few specific applications would I stock any other brand but NGK. 

 

NGK was selected out of all the options we had at the time, because we didn't have a reliable distributor that carried Bosch - Nippondenso was pretty decent plug too, but slightly more pricey than the NGK - Then later on we started seeing a bunch of NGK failures coming in and we found that another shop had serviced them - We found they were buying bulk extremely cheap plugs off Alibaba , and those NGK plugs were counterfeits. (that shop was not in business too long, for other reasons- notably the fact that they started having a very high come-back rate and owner wouldn't back up the shop's repairs when they started costing him more than the low-buck prices he was charging- after he hired a full time tech to run the shop... and these days, talking with other still-working techs and small shop owners, I am so very glad I got out of the business when I did! Industry is going to h*** in a handbasket... ) 

Ive used a few autolites, not terrible plugs.  My Legacy XL27 has a coil failing on one side and its a royal pain to swap, i put in a set of Autolite racing plugs and it has bought me time..runs 99% fine but will occasionally drop spark on the right for a few seconds.

 

NGK is weird, the Japanese equipment love them, but in a briggs or kohler its not so good at times.  

[Gasaholic 224]

5 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

 

 

NGK is weird, the Japanese equipment love them, but in a briggs or kohler its not so good at times.  

Yeah, for the Champion RC12YC spec plug there were like a half dozen cross references to NGK stock numbers , we tried all of them, and found the BCPR5ES worked best in Briggs Twins & Kohler Courage , while the BKR5E seemed to work best in the Kohler Command & Briggs single cylinder engines, and the FR4 in the Kohler Command Twins..  NGK BR2-LM was a better performer in the Briggs & Tecumseh engines that called for RJ19LM (and RJ19LMC in emissions compliant Briggs L-head) - Noting that those were by far the most common champion plug failures, and not a single premature failure of the NGK in those engines.    However, none of the NGK options to replace Champion H10C ever worked all that well in the Kohler K series & Magnums, so we stocked Champions (or Stens Mega-Fire) for those..  We did a lot of powersports work too, as well as Honda, and most (but not all) worked beautifully with NGK plugs.. As I recall, there were a couple or three of powersports (4-wheelers & snowmobiles) applications that were much better to use the OEM Spec plugs (Champion, Nippondenso, Autolite are the three I can think of that we had a small stock for, as well as one plug we could only source from Yamaha.) 

 

Of course, that was based on my own 30+ years experience, and I always heard from other shops that they had nothing but problems with *insert brand name here*, including NGK so always had their own strong recommendations.... So, YMMV 

[RED-Z06 2,221]

41 minutes ago, Gasaholic said:

Yeah, for the Champion RC12YC spec plug there were like a half dozen cross references to NGK stock numbers , we tried all of them, and found the BCPR5ES worked best in Briggs Twins & Kohler Courage , while the BKR5E seemed to work best in the Kohler Command & Briggs single cylinder engines, and the FR4 in the Kohler Command Twins..  NGK BR2-LM was a better performer in the Briggs & Tecumseh engines that called for RJ19LM (and RJ19LMC in emissions compliant Briggs L-head) - Noting that those were by far the most common champion plug failures, and not a single premature failure of the NGK in those engines.    However, none of the NGK options to replace Champion H10C ever worked all that well in the Kohler K series & Magnums, so we stocked Champions (or Stens Mega-Fire) for those..  We did a lot of powersports work too, as well as Honda, and most (but not all) worked beautifully with NGK plugs.. As I recall, there were a couple or three of powersports (4-wheelers & snowmobiles) applications that were much better to use the OEM Spec plugs (Champion, Nippondenso, Autolite are the three I can think of that we had a small stock for, as well as one plug we could only source from Yamaha.) 

 

Of course, that was based on my own 30+ years experience, and I always heard from other shops that they had nothing but problems with *insert brand name here*, including NGK so always had their own strong recommendations.... So, YMMV 

Plug quality across the board is nowhere near what it used to be, 15 years ago i was 100% on board with the mantra of "change every plug ar every service" but once i started seeing new plugs failing..it became "if its running right, not fouled or worn, no external rust and no Corona burns at the ceramic..let it ride".

[JoeM 7,874]

Ran across this old video on spark plugs. 

 

[Wheelhorse#1 1,665]

I think a big problem these days are some of these plugs are counterfet and allmost impossible to tell the differnce. Fleabay is know for selling knock OEM off parts the reseller often don't even know.

I like champion as well, less problems with them in. my experience.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Wheelhorse#1