Considering a Wheel Horse

[smach 4]

Hi All, new to this forum, been here about a week or so looking around trying to get smarter, but it's time for questions, currently have Cub Cadet 149 hydro that gave it up and don't have time to get to into it (maybe in the future). Been using a big box troy built someone gave me to get by this past summer but it's definitely not a tractor and not a hydro. To that end I have been looking at real lawn tractors, have seen adds fro several wheel horse tractors that looked interesting. Have a friend at a dealership that has one coming in in trade that I'm interested in, have not seen it yet. Here is what I know and what I don't know. It's a 416 H, has 950 hours on the meter, they think it's a 52"deck and think it's a 2021. I've looked it up on tractor data and they say this machine was made from 1990 to 1997, and only list the decks as 36", 42", & 48". I think I read some place on this site that the Wheel Horse was shipped to the dealer without a mower so the dealer could add (or not) the deck the customer wanted. 

So things I need to know before I buy,

• my guess is that tractor data is correct and the dealer got the wrong info from the owner.
• is it possible that a 52" deck could have been mounted on this machine?
• if it is a 52" deck (to big for my yard) I have seen 42" decks for sale locally, will decks from other models fit this one ( I know with Cubs most narrow frame attachments will fit any narrow frame machines)
• can someone that has a 416 H tell me the clearance from the deck to the ground with the deck in the raised position, I couldn't find it on tractor data, the cub is listed as 4 to 4.5 inches I need the clearance as my yard is not very flat and has some rocks that stick up about 2 to 3 inches, would be nice to just hit the deck lever and go over them instead of around all the time, (one of the reasons I'm looking at the hydro)
• and last anything else you all think would be helpful.
• Thanks Steve

[JCM 9,133]

to   The deck is probably a 48'' Side Discharge. It's not a 2021.  1990 to 97 sounds more like it. 950 hours is okay if it has service records .Nice tractor.

[953 nut 55,197]

[Pullstart 62,838]

 Steve!  Though not a 2021, it would surely give more years of service than most built today!

[SylvanLakeWH 25,547]

 

Not a 2021!!! Although better than 2021's... have your dealer friend check it over...  You're in the right place for questions and advice!!!

[WHX?? 48,815]

 Steve

2 hours ago, smach said:

they think it's a 52"deck and think it's a 2021. I've looked it up on tractor data and they say this machine was made from 1990 to 1997, and only

Forget about tractor data and do this...

Go kick tires when the dealer gets it in. Take a ton of pics INCLUDING a pic of the model/sn tag. Probably on the fender pan under the seat. Deck too. 

Bring those pics back here for us to evaluate. We can then tell you everything about it but not without those numbers. 

Be advised buying from a power sports dealer has pros and cons. Cons usually mean a higher price. Pros might mean it has been looked over by a competent technician and may offer a short but dependable warranty.  Same as buying a vehicle from dealer or as is private seller. 

Yes deck was optional depending on what the end user wanted. 42 or 48" being most common with a 416H. Any decks for the late models will work with proper belting. 

As far as the deck lift height goes that I cannot help you with. 

[WHGuy413 2,683]

Welcome. I have a 416h that had a 42” deck on it when I got it. I took my 48” deck and put it on. Many tractors used the same decks or style decks for years. I easily can swap the deck from my 1971 bronco 14 to my 1990’s 416H. Other attachments like the snow/dirt plow go on easy too. I wish I could help with the ground clearance picture but unfortunately the starter went bad and it’s sitting in my shed awaiting repairs. The onan engine in it is strong and will rarely miss a beat for you. Just make sure you check under the engine shrouds and clean it out regularly. 

[WHX?? 48,815]

56 minutes ago, WHGuy413 said:

it’s sitting in my shed awaiting repairs

Giterdone...

[oliver2-44 9,739]

The 416H uses the Eaton 1100 transmission which are excellent. 
The Oman’s are equally very good engines.  Make sure it is in good condition as parts are getting very expensive to overhaul. Check that the engine fins on the rear cylinder are clean and the rubber grommet is on at the oil filter. Since these are air chilled engines dirty fins means engine runs hotter and wears more.  Also check the axle seals for leakage. Seals are not terrible hard to replace, maybe a barter item. 

[WHGuy413 2,683]

41 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Giterdone...

So many projects, so little time. 

[Brockport Bill 1,661]

i have had two 416 models - one a 416h - Hydro model -- the other a 416-8 manual trans - they are wonderful model line above the 300 series but not the beasts that are the 520s -- they will do anything any homeowner might need done. Regarding the mower -- it's either a 42" or 48" model mower deck that fits that era 300, 400, 500 series WH -- OR, if in fact it measures 52" then that fits a Toro tractor in the 520 series that are 52 inch decks -- however, I believe the Toro mower decks lift carriage assembly for the Toro 520 Series is different carriage mounting assembly than that which fits a 416 series?? Be sure you get a mower deck model that actually mounts on the 416 - here are photos on my two 416s i owned previously.

[Brockport Bill 1,661]

here are some photos of 48 and 42 inch mower deck lift carriage assemblies for wh tractors for 416 model tractors

[kpinnc 12,008]

As with any purchase of a 25+ year old machine, you'll have to accept a degree of risk. That being said, a 416 at least started as a high quality tractor- much more so than most tractors of the time. This is why so many are still out there.

 

If the previous owners performed basic minimal maintenance and care of it, you'll be inheriting a tractor with years of service left to give. If not, you should keep looking unless you want to do a full on restore. That can be very expensive (though most of us think worth it), and you'll likely never recoup the time and money spent.

 

The positive side to owning these machines is that they provide decades of use with minimal upkeep. And because so many parts are interchangeable, there should be plenty to spare if needed. 

 

Good luck, and welcome to the sickness! 

[Brockport Bill 1,661]

2 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

As with any purchase of a 25+ year old machine, you'll have to accept a degree of risk. That being said, a 416 at least started as a high quality tractor- much more so than most tractors of the time. This is why so many are still out there.

 

If the previous owners performed basic minimal maintenance and care of it, you'll be inheriting a tractor with years of service left to give. If not, you should keep looking unless you want to do a full on restore. That can be very expensive (though most of us think worth it), and you'll likely never recoup the time and money spent.

 

The positive side to owning these machines is that they provide decades of use with minimal upkeep. And because so many parts are interchangeable, there should be plenty to spare if needed. 

 

Good luck, and welcome to the sickness! 

i've always thought of the wh tractor expense as dollars spread over the expected years of use -- same as any other household or family expense -- how many years average dollars -- if it's a mower deck, or a replacement or rebuild carb kit or new tires etc - - I never expect to "recoup" the dollars but just as an expenditure for any hobby we all have, or some other $ spent for a "guilty pleasure" -- or any house repair, or reno, or upgrade -- in the case of a "worker tractor" there's expense to maintain our yards or property and the tractor is part of that.  If the wh is not the main worker tractor, but merely a collector toy, then its an optional expense like others and we all make the choice where to spend those family $$$ -- but any "extra" tractors I have beyond the worker tractor is still an asset - like other assets - - and in that case there will still be value to those assets many years from now - - so in that respect there will be some "recouping" $$ -- or perhaps just be hand me down for our children and grandchildren --- which will hopefully be apreciated as a meaningful "gift".

[JCM 9,133]

Can you confirm that WH made a 52'' mower deck for a 520 -H ?  @Brockport Bill  I thought 60'' was the largest SD deck for that model. And 48'' the most common ? Just curious.

[Retired Wrencher 5,451]

Smash:   As you can see already you have much help here. Enjoy the site.

[Brockport Bill 1,661]

7 hours ago, JCM said:

Can you confirm that WH made a 52'' mower deck for a 520 -H ?  @Brockport Bill  I thought 60'' was the largest SD deck for that model. And 48'' the most common ? Just curious.

I said I believe Toro made a 52 inch mower....I did not say WH made a 52 inch. I believe it was the successor company Toro who made 52 inch mowers for their 500 series of Xi tractors. I suggest you confirm that info online here or tractordata.com or a wh or Toro dealer 

[Brockport Bill 1,661]

35 minutes ago, Brockport Bill said:

I said I believe Toro made a 52 inch mower....I did not say WH made a 52 inch. I believe it was the successor company Toro who made 52 inch mowers for their 500 series of Xi tractors. I suggest you confirm that info online here or tractordata.com or a wh or Toro dealer 

 

8 hours ago, JCM said:

Can you confirm that WH made a 52'' mower deck for a 520 -H ?  @Brockport Bill  I thought 60'' was the largest SD deck for that model. And 48'' the most common ? Just curious.

i just went to tractordata.com web site and as i believed Toro is listed with a 52 inch mower for their 500 series of Xi tractors - which of course were manufactured by Toro, the successor company to WH. I am not an expert on the Toro Xi tractor series but i believe their mowers have a different lift carriage assembly than a WH tractor???

[Brockport Bill 1,661]

34 minutes ago, Brockport Bill said:

 

i just went to tractordata.com web site and as i believed Toro is listed with a 52 inch mower for their 500 series of Xi tractors - which of course were manufactured by Toro, the successor company to WH. I am not an expert on the Toro Xi tractor series but i believe their mowers have a different lift carriage assembly than a WH tractor???

if in fact it's a Toro 52 inch mower deck ( not a WH )  it might have a lift carriage assembly like on these photos of Toro mowers that were successor designs to the wh mowers. Similar but different. Two photos are 42 inch rear discharge -- the other i believe "might be" a 52 inch? not sure??? The reason i show you the Toro mower photos is if as you wrote, the dealer has a Toro 52 inch deck, not a WH 42, or 48, then the Toro 52" lift carriage assembly may not mount with the 416 tractor????????

[smach 4]

Hi All,

First thank you all for the welcome and all the input. The dealer still has not taken the tractor in yet but I did get these two pictures and a serial #1030869. I think I saw some where that would make it a 1991. Still would like to know what the deck clearance is when raised up.

The amount of information on this site is a little overwhelming and amazing. Would appreciate any other input you can give me from these two photos, and will let you know

if I end up with it.

Thanks

[Rick3478 428]

FWIW that two stage snow blower is a desirable implement.  If the price is good, I'd take it as it sits and worry about a mower deck later.

[peter lena 8,617]

@smach welcome to the site !  for me , the elephant in the room  is not the size of the deck , but ,ITS ROTATIONAL  COLLECTIVE DRAG . first thing , notice how many are replacing PTO DRIVE CLUTCHES ? neglect and lack of correct service on a deck  is the main issue . deck rot , lack of apparent care , is obvious . even that 2 stage blower can be detailed in for easier  running . spindle drag / pulley drag , incorrect lubrication , rusty levers , connection points . thats what kills any  set up . used a 36" R/D  deck for years , never had a problem with it , totally detailed service , as suggested above. then went to 42" R/D  decks same detailed conversion  / upgrade , decks easily spin by hand , zero bearing whine , regularly checked over , prop up , to sun , cleaned , oil soak , zero rot , blades fine file sharpened , every related bearing , has 550 DEG  polyurea , Lucas grease. PTO lever set up , same functional detailing , very smooth / easy / quiet engagement . only a suggestion , made this change , because of  regular problems , pete