The importance of accurate troubleshooting

[Pullstart 62,834]

Imagine how many parts a certain orange parts chain sells that are not needed.  I did not mention this in the video, but couldn’t believe what they told me would fix my issues.

 

The codes are listed in the bottom 2/3 of the page.  The suggested parts are front and center.  Really, a valve cover gasket and a valve spring will fix this?  
 

 

[Pullstart 62,834]

The reason I mention this, is because so many parts are replaced as “I think this is the problem and this is the fix,” happens.  Always go back to the basics.  Never assume.  Use a meter.  Follow a sequence of operations.  Get there quicker.

 

 

[squonk 41,067]

Preaching to the choir. The worst thing ever was releasing trouble code description to the general public. Then came the cheap Trouble code readers and the parts store chains with the "We'll check your engine codes for free ads.

 

I saw it all the time.  My favorite: 

 

To open an auto shop all you need is money. This "kid" did. Daddy pays for it all. Kid calls and orders a cam sensor for an 89 Olds 3.8. I send him one. Calls the next day. Wants another cam sensor because first one is defective. I roll my eyes into the phone but say ok I'll send you another. Calls the next day flapping his wings like a Banty hen. another bad sensor!!! I can't help myself. I ask him with more colorful words what in the tarnation is he doing anyway? He says this Olds won't start and it has a cam sensor code!. I ask him is the cam even turning?  Dead silence. .............. I'll get back to you. Couple ours later he's ordering a timing chain and gear set. 

 

"I got a million of them!" 

[AMC RULES 37,130]

[pfrederi 17,723]

Do it the Army way...throw parts at it till it runs

[squonk 41,067]

It helps when you have all the info you need. wiring diagrams ect. Plus a system that you know how to use plus the years of experience.  There are a lot of "technicians" on YT. This guy is about an hours drive from me and is just about the best I ever ran across and I worked with quite a few. 

 

 

[ri702bill 8,316]

One of my favorite Ben Franklin quotes is "Common Sense is Uncommon"...... right up there with "There are none so blind as those who will not see"....

Once the code is displayed and read, it takes a REAL technician to explore the options.....

Bill

[Ed Kennell 38,133]

My favorite.   "My tractor won't start, I put on a new starter and it still won't start".       

[Gasaholic 224]

Heh.. I fell on the floor laughing at the service desk when the service writer handed me a repair order on a '99 F150 - He mindlessly wrote down whatever the customer said...

 

"Runs, but won't start"   

 

just that, nothing else. 

[squonk 41,067]

" Cranks but won't turn over" 

[953 nut 55,188]

6 hours ago, ri702bill said:

"Common Sense is Uncommon"...... right up there with "There are none so blind as those who will not see"

When I was doing service work and installations for United Conveyor Corp. covering NY, Northern Pa and all of New England I would generally try to walk the customer's maintenance people through some troubleshooting steps and fix the problem over the phone. Had one stubborn mechanic that insisted it wasn't safe for him to open the door of the relay cabinet and his supervisor insisted I come to the factory to do the repairs. Six hours later (8:00 pm) I was at the front gate of the factory but they were closed until six in the morning. The following morning I turned on the main breaker to the conveyor system and saw only two of the three "power on" lights were illuminated, opened the relay cabinet door and saw one of the three fuses on the floor of the cabinmate.Testred the fuse, it was good, turned off the breaker, installed the fuse, turned the breaker back on and everything worked as it should. 

UCC billed them for a four hour service call (minimum amount) twelve hours of travel time, 500 miles, five meals and one night at a motel. If the "Maintenance Man" had listened to me he could have saved the company a day of down-time and a bunch of money.

[ri702bill 8,316]

Been there, also did that........ at a UAW facility on a Sunday morning asking to use an electric drill to final ream  for removable tapered pins once everything was aligned and runnning, I had briught all the drills & reamers - just needed a drill. "No can do" the steward repllied - "you don't need an e-lectric drill motor, you need a Machinist." Maybe on Tuesday. - NOT

Edited September 15, 2023 by ri702bill

[Handy Don 12,212]

46 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

at a UAW facility...you need a Machinist

Jurisdictional disputes can be quite challenging, for sure, given how difficult some of the lines were to get negotiated. It isn’t always labor vs. managment--labor vs. labor has a checkered history, too.

[Ed Kennell 38,133]

10 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Jurisdictional disputes can be quite challenging,

I had both salaried, hourly ,union and non-union employees in a lab where model hydro turbines were built and  tested for performance.  Most of these models were for large several hundred million USD contracts.    Many of the projects were in competition with other turbine manufacturers where the model test results were used to determine who was awarded the large contract.    There was always a hard testing end date so all manufacturers had equal time to develop the best machine.  This resulted working 24/7 and using the best people available to squeeze the last tenths of a percent efficiency out of the model in the time allowed.   

In order to meet these deadlines, I had to cross the fine line between manufacturing (union labor) and development (salaried technicians)  many times resulting in many disputes. 

 

[lynnmor 7,305]

I automated and upgraded a camshaft line in a facility that builds large diesel truck engines.  At the balancing station the equipment only had two positions programmable so the machine had to be positioned perfectly so the camshaft could be gripped.  This machine was used for years and had a union "worker" sitting on a stool poking the camshaft with a stick to position it.  I requested management to align the machine properly so the stick guy could find something else to do.  They refused to do it.  Is it any wonder why manufacturing is moving to China?

[ri702bill 8,316]

2 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

I had to cross the fine line between manufacturing (union labor) and development (salaried technicians)  many times

ED - in the business world, it's ALL about the results. And, sometimes, there are people involved that you can work WITH, and the few you must work AROUND... Been there, done that..

Bill

Edited September 15, 2023 by ri702bill

[squonk 41,067]

I'm working at a school on the edge of Lake Ontario in NY doing badly needed PM's on some neglected refrigeration equipment. I get a call from a school at the southern tip of one of the Finger Lakes. "The Dept. of Health is at the HS and the final rinse temp isn't right on the dishwasher at the elementary school. You have to come because they are going there next and they will ding us!" So i not only have to pack up my tools but clean up a mess ( Cleaning coils) but have to put kitchen equipment back where they belong as they had to be moved.

 

I eat my lunch on the way down while I'm driving. When I arrive I enter thru the boiler room door. As you walk in the dishwasher water heater is in view and the screen on it is blank. I walk over to it and turn the power on and it starts up. for some reason the "maintenance man" turned it off and forgot he did it.  I watch it come up to 140°and then go try the dishwasher. 190° just like it's supposed to. 

 

I head down to the state park and watch the waves crash until it's time to head back so I arrive at the shop at quitting time. Yes I billed the school for all of the time! 

[Handy Don 12,212]

3 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

cross the fine line between manufacturing (union labor) and development (salaried technicians)  many times resulting in many disputes.

Growing up, my sibs and I were quite sensitive to who was on the hook for which chores. Plenty of “But it’s his turn” or “I did it last time”.

Mom was uninterested in becoming a referee or listening to argument. “Go outside and work it out or no supper for either of you."

[ri702bill 8,316]

7 hours ago, squonk said:

I'm working at a school on the edge of Lake Ontario in NY doing badly needed PM's on some neglected refrigeration equipment. I get a call from a school at the southern tip of one of the Finger Lakes. "The Dept. of Health is at the HS and the final rinse temp isn't right on the dishwasher at the elementary school. You have to come because they are going there next and they will ding us!" So i not only have to pack up my tools but clean up a mess ( Cleaning coils) but have to put kitchen equipment back where they

"A panic on YOUR part does not constitute a panic on MY part".... Sevrice 101....

[Pullstart 62,834]

10 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Growing up, my sibs and I were quite sensitive to who was on the hook for which chores. Plenty of “But it’s his turn” or “I did it last time”.

Mom was uninterested in becoming a referee or listening to argument. “Go outside and work it out or no supper for either of you."

My ex step brother and I got sent outside to duke it out a time or two.  My mom was tired of us fighting (arguing) in the house, but outside the gloves came off!  

[Handy Don 12,212]

12 hours ago, Pullstart said:

My ex step brother and I got sent outside to duke it out a time or two.  My mom was tired of us fighting (arguing) in the house, but outside the gloves came off!  

Mom was majorly opposed to physical fighting--she expected negotiations and compromise, even if accompanied by (outdoor) yelling and screaming. Had we resorted to blows, we would not only have both missed supper, but would have been given extra chores. 

[tunahead72 2,412]

On 9/14/2023 at 11:53 AM, squonk said:

It helps when you have all the info you need. wiring diagrams ect. Plus a system that you know how to use plus the years of experience.  There are a lot of "technicians" on YT. This guy is about an hours drive from me and is just about the best I ever ran across and I worked with quite a few. 

 

 

 

Been meaning to check him out, thanks for the recommendation!

 

[Sailman 1,291]

"poor planning on your part....does not constitute a crisis on my part"