relatively new cars , chassis rot / decay

[peter lena 8,627]

just down at my friends auto shop , cars on the lifts , 4-7 years old , chassis rot was extensive , control arms rotted thru , suspension  connection points , rotted thru frame , rack/ pinion steering mount points , rotted away . wheel wells rotted right thru , door seams rotted , seat mounts rotted out . disc brake calipers , heavily rotted at mount area .  control arms rotted thru at swivel mount areas . cars looked neglected , chalky paint , lack of interest . looking at them , and what would have completely stopped that  , was easy for me. would not have cost much either . not a single oil stain / of any kind under the cars , just the opposed of my cars .  before you know it , it will be road salt time , oil slick, Pete    

[lynnmor 7,306]

26 minutes ago, peter lena said:

just down at my friends auto shop , cars on the lifts , 4-7 years old , chassis rot was extensive , control arms rotted thru , suspension  connection points , rotted thru frame , rack/ pinion steering mount points , rotted away . wheel wells rotted right thru , door seams rotted , seat mounts rotted out . disc brake calipers , heavily rotted at mount area .  control arms rotted thru at swivel mount areas . cars looked neglected , chalky paint , lack of interest . looking at them , and what would have completely stopped that  , was easy for me. would not have cost much either . not a single oil stain / of any kind under the cars , just the opposed of my cars .  before you know it , it will be road salt time , oil slick, Pete    

People just beg for more and more salt thinking it is about safety while driving wasted junk with wasted brakes and more.  We can’t fix stupid.

[peter lena 8,627]

@lynnmor  like to watch the guys  right behind the chemical drop trucks , you can't fix stupid , those cars must be in pain , pete

[8ntruck 7,004]

I don't even like driving on dirt roads that have been freshly treated with chloride based anti cuts chemicals.

[rmaynard 15,459]

Toyota had a problem with frame rot about 10 years ago. When I bought my Tacoma in 2015, dealers all had stacks of frames behind the dealerships waiting to be replaced. Mine did not have the problem, and about 3 years ago I received a voluntary service bulletin asking me to bring the truck in overnight while they dried the inside of the frame, then coated it. So far, I've had no problems. Friends of mine who purchased Dodge Rams more recently than me have had total rust out of both suspension and body. I guess it has something to do with Chinese steel. My daughter-in-law is in acquisition for JLG Lifts. They will not buy Chinese steel due to the myriad problems that accompany the imported stuff. Says something about buy it here, build it here.

Edited September 1, 2023 by rmaynard

[lynnmor 7,306]

40 minutes ago, rmaynard said:

They will not buy Chinese steel due to the myriad problems that accompany the imported stuff. Says something about buy it here, build it here.

Since USA steel mills are now few and far between there may be nowhere to run.

[ri702bill 8,321]

Ah, yes - Chinesium "metal"....good enough for toys, not vehicles.....

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,318]

1 hour ago, rmaynard said:

Toyota had a problem with frame rot about 10 years ago. When I bought my Tacoma in 2015, dealers all had stacks of frames behind the dealerships waiting to be replaced. Mine did not have the problem, and about 3 years ago I received a voluntary service bulletin asking me to bring the truck in overnight while they dried the inside of the frame, then coated it. So far, I've had no problems. Friends of mine who purchased Dodge Rams more recently than me have had total rust out of both suspension and body. I guess it has something to do with Chinese steel. My daughter-in-law is in acquisition for JLG Lifts. They will not buy Chinese steel due to the myriad problems that accompany the imported stuff. Says something about buy it here, build it here.

  Interesting thing about those Toyota frame issues back then is that it was actually an American company out of Ohio (Dana Corp) that didn’t properly treat or coat the frames before the Toyota trucks were assembled here in the US.
  Toyota got lots of bad press, I realize ultimately anything with the Toyota emblem on it is their responsibility (and they stepped up big time replacing zillions of frames), but it’s interesting how an American company actually botched the frames. 

   

[peter lena 8,627]

@ri702bill  interesting you mention toys , a lifetime ago , as a kid , the Japanese toys were made from soda cans , painted outside , but a soda can finish inside . remember store fronts , selling ww 2  military souvenirs ,  both  German / Japanese i  another time , Pete

 

 

 

 

[Beap52 811]

My 1971 El Camino's frame rusted out above the rear axle.  Had to have a shop weld a gusset and reinforce the frame to get it to pass inspection 30 years ago.  When we rebuilt it in early 2000's I purchased a doner car with good frame that we swapped out.  That's when I began keeping an eye on underside of my vehicles.  I won't purchase a vehicle with body rust because I figure that fuel, brake lines and other parts hidden away are suffering the same rust. 

[ri702bill 8,321]

26 minutes ago, Beap52 said:

I figure that fuel, brake lines and other parts hidden away are suffering the same rust. 

They certainly are. What mileage does'nt get, time & salt does. Going thru all that with my 99 Ranger with only 102000 on the clock.

[squonk 41,118]

2 hours ago, Sparky said:

  Interesting thing about those Toyota frame issues back then is that it was actually an American company out of Ohio (Dana Corp) that didn’t properly treat or coat the frames before the Toyota trucks were assembled here in the US.
  Toyota got lots of bad press, I realize ultimately anything with the Toyota emblem on it is their responsibility (and they stepped up big time replacing zillions of frames), but it’s interesting how an American company actually botched the frames. 

   

I bought a 99 Tacoma at an auction. Truck was beautiful. I crawled all over it looking for frame rot. The auction announced frame damage. I couldn't find it and was the winning bidder. I didn't even know about the frame recall until someone told me about it. I decided to coat the frame myself. Went to crawl under and my hand went through the frame. Toyota gave me $5000 more for the truck than I paid. 

 

You want to buy American? GM wouldn't stand behind a known engine problem on my sons 13 Equinox. $8000. My 13 GMC has a known issue they won't stand behind  also. Ram and Ford have their issues too. Class action lawsuits all over. A girl at work has been without the Chevy Malibu she bought a year ago for 8 months. At least Toyota takes care of some of their customers.

Edited September 2, 2023 by squonk

[JCM 9,166]

37 minutes ago, squonk said:

 At least Toyota takes care of some of their customers.

I agree with you 100% @squonk and I have been a GM  guy since 1977 when I bought my 1970 Chevelle SS with 17000 miles on it. Trying to keep my 86 K-20 and my 2013  2500HD for as long as I can because I really don't want to give them anymore of my hard earned money. But I know if I live long enough I probably will get sucked in again. It's either that or go Toyota Tundra.

[76c12091520h 3,620]

3 hours ago, Sparky said:

  Interesting thing about those Toyota frame issues back then is that it was actually an American company out of Ohio (Dana Corp) that didn’t properly treat or coat the frames before the Toyota trucks were assembled here in the US.
  Toyota got lots of bad press, I realize ultimately anything with the Toyota emblem on it is their responsibility (and they stepped up big time replacing zillions of frames), but it’s interesting how an American company actually botched the frames. 

   

I get questioned sometimes about my choice of Toyota's for the last 10 years,  people always point out the rusty frame issues ( which in my experience as a collision tech  is not as bad as the other DOMESTIC manufacturers }; the question I always ask is when is the last time you've seen a Tacoma or Tundra with rotted out bedsides, rockers, and cab corners compared to everything else going down the road.

Edited September 2, 2023 by 76c12091520h

[Bill D 1,921]

I just bought a 2024 Subaru Outback Wilderness.  Trying to find someone around here to undercoat it before winter as the dealership doesn't do that anymore.  I may have to do it myself if I can find the time.

[squonk 41,118]

I bought a 06 Tundra with 150,000 miles on it. Had it about 5 years and got rid of it at 220, 000 . Truck never broke and had no rust. Couldn't afford what newer Tundras were going for. I had back issues and the seats were terrible. I love the seats in my GMC but I have rust starting. I bought it used and it hadn't been rustproofed. I had it sprayed 3 times at Krown Rustproofing. It slowed the progression. I see all kinds of stories on YT now of 10 year old trucks of all makes with rotted frames.

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by squonk

[peter lena 8,627]

@Bill D  not just the undercoat , a rust penetrant into every / any seam area , will quickly grow in spread /  film slick protection . especially , fender / wheel arches , lower door seams , lift up door entry trim , get that penetrant in there , inside tailgates , keep a regular look on it for how its creeping . verify what s going on . any time you get an opportunity , check things out , just don't things are all set . just look at a fairly new pick up in a parking lot , wheel arches, fender edges , there is a regular , rust coloration starting .    Kroil , lubriplate  ,mineral oil , kerosene , a carrier / lubricant is what you want . just some ideas , pete

[Handy Don 12,232]

12 hours ago, Bill D said:

I just bought a 2024 Subaru Outback Wilderness.  Trying to find someone around here to undercoat it before winter as the dealership doesn't do that anymore.  I may have to do it myself if I can find the time.

Two main reasons why the undercoating business (can you spell Ziebart?) is pretty much gone.

First, fewer and fewer recent cars are being made in ways that are vulnerable to rust & corrosion (notice the rust-through warranties are now at 6 to 8 years?).

Second, wrongly applied undercoat can cause serious damage by blocking drain holes and trapping water, by impeding the operation of critical sensors, and even causing vehicle fires.

Keeping your vehicle clean top and underside is the best protection for these newer vehicles.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Handy Don

[squonk 41,118]

12 hours ago, Bill D said:

I just bought a 2024 Subaru Outback Wilderness.  Trying to find someone around here to undercoat it before winter as the dealership doesn't do that anymore.  I may have to do it myself if I can find the time.

Find a Ziebart near you. Unless you have a lift it aint worth the mess. You get as much on you as you do the car and it's impossible to do a good job. They will have all of the wands to be "Minimally invasive" of your bodywork. Take it from a guy who rustproofed cars for a couple of years.

[76c12091520h 3,620]

I was the body shop manager for a Chrysler / Dodge / Plymouth dealer for 15 years starting in the  early 90's .We used to get a kick out of all the vehicles with " Rusty Jones " decals in the windows or door jambs. The decal was usually the only thing holding them together.....

[squonk 41,118]

22 minutes ago, 76c12091520h said:

I was the body shop manager for a Chrysler / Dodge / Plymouth dealer for 15 years starting in the  early 90's .We used to get a kick out of all the vehicles with " Rusty Jones " decals in the windows or door jambs. The decal was usually the only thing holding them together.....

Those cars started to rust before they came off the lot! Did you get to seal the gaps in the unibodies on the Onmi/Horizon/ Turismo/ Charger platforms like I did? Water leaks pouring out under the dash were a hoot!  Also the tiny pinholes on the edge of the roof drip rails. Water would enter on one side and leak out the other! 

Edited September 2, 2023 by squonk

[jonw440 187]

I use "New Hampshire Undercoating" to treat my truck in the spring. I bought my 2018 Ram Big Horn CTD new in 2018. I have used this product since new and it still has no rust at all! I bought the DIY kit and a gallon of the product.It takes me about 2 hours to spry the truck.

Over time the oil seeps into every crack and crevice.

[rmaynard 15,459]

On 9/1/2023 at 10:21 PM, Bill D said:

I just bought a 2024 Subaru Outback Wilderness.  Trying to find someone around here to undercoat it before winter as the dealership doesn't do that anymore.  I may have to do it myself if I can find the time.

I am on my 3rd Subaru. First was a 1997 second a 2002, and current one is a 2014. I live in central Maryland. Many roads here are still treated with salt in winter. I have never had any problem with rust or corrosion. I have the car safety inspected once a year by an independent garage. I have never gotten a report that anything was rusting. I would avoid any "rust proofing" service. Just like extended warranties on appliances, phones, and outdoor equipment, they are all just money making gimmicks.

[squonk 41,118]

Everyone's situation is different. where they live, how much salt gets used, how rough was the winter and above all else WHO MAKES THE CAR!. There are countless video's on YT of vehicles less than 10 years old all rotted away. With what they cost now, unless you lease and get a new one every 3 years, if you don't get some kind of rust protection your foolish. A treatment runs $150-$200 bucks. Put that up against a $70.000-$100,000 truck! 

[ohiofarmer 3,276]

On 9/1/2023 at 2:01 PM, peter lena said:

just down at my friends auto shop , cars on the lifts , 4-7 years old , chassis rot was extensive , control arms rotted thru , suspension  connection points , rotted thru frame , rack/ pinion steering mount points , rotted away . wheel wells rotted right thru , door seams rotted , seat mounts rotted out . disc brake calipers , heavily rotted at mount area .  control arms rotted thru at swivel mount areas . cars looked neglected , chalky paint , lack of interest . looking at them , and what would have completely stopped that  , was easy for me. would not have cost much either . not a single oil stain / of any kind under the cars , just the opposed of my cars .  before you know it , it will be road salt time , oil slick, Pete    

  Peter... If you would kindly post a link to exactly how you do your treatments I would be very grateful.

  Your patina preserver comments on our tractors are spot on