Noisy turbines.

[formariz 11,987]

A large part of the country is powered wind power. I understand all the benefits and hoopla about this but these turbines are becoming an eyesore. They are everywhere. One cannot turn around without seeing dozens of them. In addition to that once you get close to them one realizes they are noisy. Besides the wind noise there is a weird whistle they produce.

 

 

 

Noisy turbines

[c-series don 8,707]

I didn’t realize the noise that they produce. I certainly wouldn’t want that near my house! There’s some of them off the coast of Block Island, Rhode Island and they are putting more up off the coast of Long Island as we speak. There has been much opposition to them, however they are going up anyway. I really wonder how long they will last in the salt water environment? And what about hurricanes? 
 After hearing that video it, I also wonder if there’s any correlation between the unusual amount of dead whales washing up and those wind turbines? As I was typing this, the story of another whale washed up came on the news 😢

[Pullstart 62,881]

I enjoy watching them, but it’s always so windy when they turn ‘em on!  

[JoeM 7,874]

Always a trade off. 

25 years ago I was thinking about moving to a different company. As part of the interview process, i was treated to a tour of the local area. One stop was the a small turbine farm with very large machines. We stopped right at one and yes I was amazed at the noise and a constant whooping sound. The wind mills were very secluded. The power output was about one megawatt. Now I understand they are 3 plus megawatt. A nice size power plant, coal or gas is 500 plus megawatt. So you need a lot of them if replacing a conventional plant.

I ask a lot of questions along the way. Surprising my tour guide, Ruth, knew a lot. I ask about cost and return on investment. The one thing that stuck in my mind was when she said.....not profitable without government subsidy. 

A few years later I had done some business with an electric motor repair company. A sideline for those guys was servicing the wind machines. Again being inquisitive, ask about the cost etc., They are not cheap to service and repair. The high climbing techs cost a lot per hour and some of the service is very technical.  

 

 

 

[formariz 11,987]

The whooping wind noise kind doesn’t bother me the whistles however are really annoying.

 So here they had and have an easy time finding where to put them. Agriculture is in decline since the younger generations mostly do not follow that path. Now you have all of this land uncultivated which by law has to be maintained and kept clean because of the devastating fires that they have every year . Owners get a huge fine if they don’t do it. It’s of course expensive. It has to be done throughout the year since stuff here grows the whole year. There is no winter such as the States stuff does not go dormant. Now come these energy companies and offer to lease the land for a handsome sum and in addition they keep it clean and build great roads for easy access . It’s a no brainer for these people. Get fined or and spend a fortune keeping it clean or getting a substantial income for leasing land to the energy companies. 

[squonk 41,118]

We need more electricity. Not just because of electric cars either. As the population grows and grows, we need more housing. More housing needs more energy. Same with cars. We see the old posts on FB with gas at 30 cents a gal. Everyone gets all wound up about the price of gas now. But there were a couple million cars on the road then compared to the millions upon millions now.  We have plenty of oil. We don't have enough refineries to refine it. I had customers (farmers) who leased their land to cell tower companies (eyesore) and gas wells $$$$ They quit farming and head to the local casinos.

 

Who wants a refinery next to their house? Raise their hand!  Who wants a power plant next to their house? Raise their hand! 

 

I'm no fan of windmills either but they will become a necessity in the long term. Enjoy life. It's too short as we have found all too often in this forum lately.

Edited August 12, 2023 by squonk

[formariz 11,987]

Guess also what other country finances most of these turbines. 

[JoeM 7,874]

34 minutes ago, squonk said:

We need more electricity.

Good question Mike.

The local power station, Hatfield's Ferry Power Station, was a 1.7 gigawatt producer. They invested 700 million in clean coal technology power in 2009. They decided to start shutting it down in 2013 because of a even tighter regulation needing another 245 million in upgrades. Hmmm. 

China commissions 1 new coal powered plant a week.

Again Hmmm

There is a lot of foreign interest that guides our world. 

Just makes you wonder.

 

 

[squonk 41,118]

1 minute ago, Joey Small Block said:

Good question Mike.

 

China commissions 1 new coal powered plant a week.

 

 

 

Check out air quality in China. Again who wants a power plant next to their house ? 

[Racinbob 11,081]

I'm a bigger proponent of solar power but wind is also important. Wind turbine farms are far quieter than just about any manufacturing plant. The perception of the noise is increased due to them being built in rural areas with minimal background noise. Yes, they do make noise and it's different but even standing at the base of a tower a normal conversation can be had. 

 

Threshold of hearing 0

Rural night-time background 20-40

Quiet bedroom 35

Wind farm at 350m 35-45

Car at 40mph at 100m 55

Busy general office 60

Truck at 30mph at 100m 65

Pneumatic drill at 7m 95

Jet aircraft at 250m 105

Threshold of pain 140

 

A visit to the Blue Creek Wind Farm should convince anybody that the noise is mainly just an excuse for not liking them. Same goes for things like bird kills, etc. No, I wouldn't want one close but the same goes for (as Mike mentioned)  a power plant, refinery, any manufacturing, landfill, etc. 

[Rob J. 1,942]

If people knew the real

story behind these besides what the “experts” tell you there wouldn’t be any of these boondoggles around to watch in awe. 

[Sailman 1,291]

The whole green movement is dependent on government subsidy. I get the concern about running out of fossil fuel but they are rushing headlong into these "solutions" without looking at long term problems.  The windmills are expensive to build and maintain, the blades have a limited life expectancy and end up in land fills when no longer usable. The rush to electric cars ignores the fact the carbon foot print on them is as bad as gas powered cars when you factor the mining, etc for the batteries. Th whole CO2 scare is suspect as that's what plants use. The elephant in the room is after 10 years the electric car batteries are shot, replacement cost is more than the car is worth and at this time the batteries are not recyclable. And where do folks think the electricity for charging comes from?? Fossil fuel powered electric power plants. I don't understand why the hybrid technology is not fully explored in vehicles first. Uses much less gas, recharges cheaper simpler batteries and seems to be a good balance toward less fossil fuel used. I am sure I will ruffle some feathers here but the whole "green movement" smacks of the same control agenda of the Covid mess. I lived in the 70's when all the media were warning about global winter with pictures of the statue of liberty submerged in ice. Same folks selling the same scare with $$$ in the pockets for them.

[oliver2-44 9,751]

2 hours ago, formariz said:

A large part of the country is powered wind power. I understand all the benefits and hoopla about this but these turbines are becoming an eyesore. They are everywhere. One cannot turn around without seeing dozens of them. In addition to that once you get close to them one realizes they are noisy. Besides the wind noise there is a weird whistle they produce.

IM_4076.mov
28.62 MB · 0 downloads

@formarizWhat's being cultivated in the first picture?

 

All technologies have their pro's and con's, but we always seem to like/push the new one.

Interesting natural gas combined cycle power plants are the new large electric power plant to build.

They usually have 2 large gas turbines with generators exhausting into a boiler that powers a 3rd steam turbine generator.

After the shortages in the 70's laws were passed that prohibited companies from building natural gas power plants.  Suddenly those laws are gone.

Now with the shale oil & gas discoveries gas is in excess and low cost.  50 years from now we'll be back to building coal plants utilizing some new technology.

 

 

2 hours ago, Joey Small Block said:

The one thing that stuck in my mind was when she said.....not profitable without government subsidy. 

 

A few years later I had done some business with an electric motor repair company. A sideline for those guys was servicing the wind machines. Again being inquisitive, ask about the cost etc., They are not cheap to service and repair. The high climbing techs cost a lot per hour and some of the service is very technical.  

About 5 years ago, before I retired, we sent some special motors to a shop that our company had an exclusive contract with. They were significantly past their promised delivery date so i paid a surprise visit to their shop. Their were wind turbine generators everywhere and our motor was in the corner.  The had more lucrative wind generator repair business than they could handle.    These motors had a slow speed gear box built around their shaft with 3 sets of planetary gears  in the rounded motor end bells. No external gear box helped make a compact design for use inside dam tunnels.

 

[squonk 41,118]

So for the "boondoggle " crowd. If you don't want wind or a solar farm next to your house ,where should these gas and "clean coal" fired  power plants be built and who pays for them? 

[953 nut 55,229]

1 hour ago, Joey Small Block said:

I ask about cost and return on investment. The one thing that stuck in my mind was when she said.....not profitable without government subsidy.

That seems to be the case with all of the latest and greatest things being thrown in our faces by the "power brokers" that collaborate to "improve our lives!"  

California has been experiencing flooding problems and rolling electrical blackouts and brownouts for decades yet in their infinite wisdom the state has decided to spend $ 450 million to remove four hydroelectric dams on the Klamath River. The combined power output of the hydro plants being removed is about 60 continuous megawatts of GREEN ENERGY that would require a sixty acre "solar energy farm" (if the sun is shining) or twenty huge wind turbines (if the wind is blowing but not too hard).

These dams were built as flood control devices and the electricity produced has been a bonus, now they are being removed to restore habitat for migratory fish. They seem to be missing the point here, migratory fish return to the place where they were born. It has been several decades since any of these migratory fish have been born uprive of the dams being removed so what makes the decision makers think they will "return" to the habitat they never knew? Meanwhile let the flooding begin and don't recharge your "E Vehicle" becaus there is a shortage of power for thr electrical grid,

 

 

   

[Rob J. 1,942]

18 minutes ago, squonk said:

So for the "boondoggle " crowd. If you don't want wind or a solar farm next to your house ,where should these gas and "clean coal" fired  power plants be built and who pays for them? 

Well if most understood how deep the boondoggle is they might have different opinions. The power company lobbies your government. The government convinces people how great these are and the tax payer fronts the money for the construction of these windmill farms. That’s right you the tax payer are paying the power company to build these windmills. The power company in turn insures each windmill for destruction. When enough of the farm is non-functional the power company will abandon that farm and move on. On to the next proposal. Let’s not talk about how environmentally bad these are for the environment. So essentially the power companies have found a way for the tax payer to fund their operations from start to finish. Meanwhile nobody in this country is enjoying reduced power bill. 
 

The only viable solution to electrifying transportation is nuclear power plants. The safest, cleanest power there is. 
 

Fossil fuel plants have been around a long time. Never heard people having a problem with them but I sure do hear it from folks who live close to these tax payer funded windmill farms.

 

The reality is they can never build enough windmills or install enough solar panel to replace fossil fuel electric production unless they go nuclear. 
 

The power company pays for their fossil fuel plants. It’s more profitable for you to get the tax payer to pay for that part. 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Rob J.

[Rob J. 1,942]

And by the way, the windmill farm just south of me hardly ever runs. Even on a windy day a good number of them are shut off. This field with all its turbines produces power that goes elsewhere. This field is used only to supplement the fossil fuel plants when demand is high then they’re shut down. The craziest thing when they proposed this field all the residents by and large were against it yet it somehow got passed. Well it got passed by the folks who live in urban areas that don’t have to deal with the adverse effects of these things. 

[squonk 41,118]

Ok who wants a nuke plant in their area? Raise their hands!

 

Again I'm no fan of wind farms and ugly solar farms that are all over the place here. There has been a lot of opposition to them being built plus the life cycle of the panels and the landfill issue of their disposal. 

 

But the nuke and gas and coal plant idea reminds me of the stories when cars were introduced. All the hand wringing of something new replacing the tried and true horse. No idea is perfect. If it's nuclear, gas, coal, wind, or solar, someone's pocket is going to be lined so let's keep the conspiracies out of it.

 

The bottom line is we need more power and it's going to cost in lifestyle, noise pollution, safety, air pollution ect. Nothing's free

Edited August 12, 2023 by squonk

[JoeM 7,874]

2 hours ago, squonk said:

Check out air quality in China

Been there, worked there. And it is bad.  

Only thing they are concerned about is getting American dollars and technology. And we are giving it to them. It's free for the taking. No protection. 

 

Power plant in back yard, they can put it back. 

[rmaynard 15,459]

36 minutes ago, squonk said:

Ok who wants a nuke plant in their area? Raise their hands!

 

 

I have two nuke plants within an hour of me. Am I worried? No.

 

But the discussion should not be about what is right or wrong with any type of electric generation, the discussion and emphasis should be on developing FUSION.

 

[oliver2-44 9,751]

1 hour ago, 953 nut said:

That seems to be the case with all of the latest and greatest things being thrown in our faces by the "power brokers" that collaborate to "improve our lives!"  

California has been experiencing flooding problems and rolling electrical blackouts and brownouts for decades yet in their infinite wisdom the state has decided to spend $ 450 million to remove four hydroelectric dams on the Klamath River. The combined power output of the hydro plants being removed is about 60 continuous megawatts of GREEN ENERGY that would require a sixty acre "solar energy farm" (if the sun is shining) or twenty huge wind turbines (if the wind is blowing but not too hard).

These dams were built as flood control devices and the electricity produced has been a bonus, now they are being removed to restore habitat for migratory fish. They seem to be missing the point here, migratory fish return to the place where they were born. It has been several decades since any of these migratory fish have been born uprive of the dams being removed so what makes the decision makers think they will "return" to the habitat they never knew? Meanwhile let the flooding begin and don't recharge your "E Vehicle" becaus there is a shortage of power for thr electrical grid,

  

Amazingly a majority of existing Hydro Plants do not qualify as Green Energy.  When the "Green" rules were written Hydro lobbied to be included, but the rules were written in a way to encourage "New "Green Resources .   Some new Run of the River Hydro would qualify, but not existing ???

When we overhauled/rebuilt 80 year old hydro plant there power output was increase due to new technology.  So while the original capacity of the plant was not green, the increment of  "increased capacity was considered green.  Same water, same dam, same lake, just different rules., 

 

Regarding the fish.  It amazed me that dam owners are required to have hatcheries to replace the fish their dam impacted.  Yet 10 miles offshore, in international waters the catch numbers from huge cannery ships has skyrocketed for many years.  So while the dams may be blamed for the decreasing migratory fish numbers, no one talks about the increasing commercial fishing impact.   I used to have a graph of the numbers it was staggering.

[formariz 11,987]

Guys don’t get upset over this. It merely saddens me to see the pristine look of this place  which has been unchanged for over one thousand years , violated all of a sudden with a total foreign and out of place object as a result of our selfish need to satisfy our constant evolution in being dependent on things that many times we don’t need. The population here is actually dwindling. Less and less children are being born. 

[squonk 41,118]

I have a nuke plant 40 miles from me. Am I worried about it? No. Maybe if I was a 20 something about to raise a family. If they announced a new plant being built, I figure by the time it's on line I would be about done on earth. 

 

 

 

I live 5 miles from NYS' biggest landfill. There is a huge increase in cancer concentration with a 10 mile radius. The town passed a law to close it. The landfill financed 2 town board members in their election bid to overturn it.

 

Now that is a boondoggle.

[8ntruck 7,004]

Owning property in 3 states takes us on trips in a rough triangle in the Midwest - central Michigan on one corner, central Missouri on the 2nd corner and south central Kentucky on the 3rd corner.  Over the last 10 to 15 years, we have watched solar and wind farms pop up along our usual travel routes. 

 

Yes, those installations look different and strange - alien looking even.  But, I find myself getting used to them.  Are they problem and issue free? No, but then again what human built technology is problem and issue free?

 

The demand for electricity is increasing..  We got to do something to keep up.  Might as well dabble in the newer technologies that seem to be cleaner and less impactful along the way.

 

On this week's trip from Michigan to Missouri, I saw a flatbed semi loadaded with wind turbine blades cut into 40 ft pieces, most likely headed to a landfill somewhere. 

 

In central Illinois, there was a big storm blowing in from the northwest.  Thought I would just miss it, but I didn't.  As I was driving into it, a strong wind came up from the north.  That stretch of road had wind farms on both sides.  The turbines on the north side of the road were all facing into the wind and spinning as fast as I've seen any spin, while the turbines on the south side of the road were facing in several directions and not all were turning.  As the storm proceeded south, those turbines started to turn into the wind and come on line.

 

Wind turbine related boondoggle story.  There was a new machine shop in mid Michigan that was built around a new CNC mill big enough to machine a wind turbine blade.  It did actually machine one blade - the one required by the grant to qualify for payment. 

 

Capitalism is another human invention that works, but is not perfect.  People have always, and will continue to juggle any existing rules, laws, or conventions to maximize personal or corporate gains.  It happens in all industries.  Solar and wind are just the popular ones at the moment.

Edited August 12, 2023 by 8ntruck

[lynnmor 7,306]

58 minutes ago, formariz said:

Guys don’t get upset over this. It merely saddens me to see the pristine look of this place  which has been unchanged for over one thousand years , violated all of a sudden with a total foreign and out of place object as a result of our selfish need to satisfy our constant evolution in being dependent on things that many times we don’t need. The population here is actually dwindling. Less and less children are being born. 

Since solar and wind turbines can be built most anywhere, why are the not being built in the cities where the bulk of the energy will be used?  Of course I already know the answer and it is the fact that rural ares don't matter much politically. 

 

If your population is dropping, perhaps we can send some of our excess that are streaming across the border.