Spring in the PTO housing

[michael hall 1]

Got a question some of you might have run into.  My 1976 C120 PTO has a spring inside that is very worn.  Now I spoke with my local wheelhorse dealer and he tried to find a replacement and has had no luck.  He told me that there wasnt a spring in earlier models and wheelhorse discontinued putting a spring in the PTO after a few years of doing it.  So any ideas on get a replacement or should I leave it out because it created issues thats why wheelhorse stopped putting them in.  Whats you alls advice?

[Lee1977 6,662]

Yes they came with the spring and a small thrust bearing. You don't need any of that it will work just fine with out it. They did away with that in the later Wheel Horses.

There was also a 3/8" screw in the end of the crank shaft, if it is still there take it out also.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Lee1977

[Gasaholic 224]

yep. As Lee said - There'd be a short 3/8-24 NF Stub screw in end of crank, onto which was placed a thrust washer, flat thrust roller bearing, and another thrust washer, plus the spring. The stub screw intended to keep everything lined up and in place. The purpose was to push the PTO away when de-clutching and into the PTO Brake so as to stop the PTO more quickly.  This was the transition between the PTO engagement lever designs after they added the PTO brake, then they did a tweak to the PTO engagement design so that disengaging would "pull" the pto stack pulley away from clutch plate and into the brake lightly, eliminating the need for the return spring, as I recall. Unit would work just fine without the spring & bearings, though they could tend to be a little slow on the stop time after disengaging PTO, but no one but the CPSC (and Wheel Horse's liability insurance lawyers, and Dealers that were in a "sue-happy" region where folks would file a lawsuit at the drop of a hat) worried about that... having the PTO Brake there was still better than the no-brake designs, but old-school farm boys knew enough to have patience to wait until pto driven stuff stopped moving before doing anything around the implements. 

[rmaynard 15,483]

Is this what you are looking for?  #44. Tell your dealer to look a little harder. Still available. As far as "don't need it",  I disagree. I find that the PTO presses against the brake better with it.

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by rmaynard

[WHX?? 48,821]

Any idea what years these were?

I never heard of this or seen them on any of my horses. 

Your horse sense impresses me @Gasaholic. Can tell you worked for a dealer.  

[Gasaholic 224]

Not sure what years, I believe they started right around when they started equipping the PTO Brakes (CPSC Regulations that I think also started the pushmower models with blade brake, where blade had to stop within 3 seconds or so... which is when the 22 inch cut mowers kinda became 21" and engine governor springs came in assorted strengths to set top no load RPM based on the blade size it was gonna power, which then led up to the lawsuit against Briggs & Tecumseh and others regarding horsepower ratings.. but I digress... )  and those springs were done up until the PTO engagement plate (can't remember the technical term for that triangle of metal!) was re-worked a little bit (Think a spring through a cotter pin inserted into the PTO control rod and into the plate) which then served the purpose to "pull out" the stack pulley into the PTO brake which made the inner spring no longer necessary. I can't really say for sure what model years had what changes, but I know I have worked on every PTO variation up through 1996 model year or so... after which I lost track of when Toro stopped producing that design (late 90's, early 00's?) so I remember pretty much all of them, except maybe the rarer pre-60's ones.  about 12 or so years ago I did have an old 1054 with cross shaft 32" deck and that foot-pedal operated PTO - Mainly just fixed it up to usable and sold it (I wasn't looking for a hobby back then) 

 

But anyhow - Yeah I am not sure what years they started or ended that configuration, but I do remember the "why" of it and how they went together. (Which , we always fixed at the dealership if they needed it, but I have no trouble with saying they were not absolutely necessary for things to work, they just would not have worked quite as designed.) 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Gasaholic
minor claricifcation

[rmaynard 15,483]

4 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Any idea what years these were?

I never heard of this or seen them on any of my horses. 

Your horse sense impresses me @Gasaholic. Can tell you worked for a dealer.  

My B-100 has it and it's a 1977.

[Lee1977 6,662]

9 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Any idea what years these were?

I never heard of this or seen them on any of my horses. 

Your horse sense impresses me @Gasaholic. Can tell you worked for a dealer.  

1976 and 1977 C-series not sure when they stop using them.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Lee1977