I think the fuel tank strainer is restricting or the float is sticking in my carb. Opinions?

[GAJoe 844]

Back in Jan I installed a fuel filter that met everyone's approval.

 

And I have been cutting the grass so far this summer without issue until this past Friday. I crank it up by choking and putting the throttle at half plus then turn the key. It always starts within seconds and I have to open the choke right away as it runs rough and smokes running rich until I do. So on Friday I started it as described and backed it out and began moving forward and it started to die as if out of gas then suddenly revs up as if I choked it, runs rough and smokes then sounds better and nearly dies and repeats a couple times then died. I verified that I have fuel (always non-ethanol) in the tank and that the new fuel filter is clean. Now that strainer at the bottom of the tank is laying over and slightly collapsed. I found that earlier and cleaned it out before adding the fuel filter in Jan. I also verified that the choke linkage is tight and the plate isn't moving. The air filter was a little dirty but not enough to cause this I don't believe.

I'm thinking that I need to drain the tank and straighten the strainer out and inspect it closely out of the tank. Will the assembly come out of the tank? Remove it or replace it if it's a problem?

But if that is not the problem I plan on picking up some new fuel line and putting on the fuel pump discharge into a catch container to make sure that it's pumping good. If it's pumping good I may leave out the check valve and see how it runs. If it behaves the same after all that then I think it's a float sticking in the carb' and I'll get a rebuild kit for it. 

I've been wanting to do a few of the 5 things in:

but it was sounding so good that I didn't.

If I decide to rebuild the carb it may be a good time.

 

Please comment and tell me if I'm headed the wrong way.

Any suggestions much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Edited July 16, 2023 by GAJoe

[JCM 9,169]

Over the years I have replaced 4 or 5 fuel valves with the screens somewhat flattened, some more than others and it didn't seem to be an issue the way the tractor performed. That with all new fuel lines and filter. Yes they come out. A little lube helps to re install bushing/valve. Removing the fuel tank and cleaning it while your at it is worth it just in case.

[ebinmaine 67,545]

1 hour ago, JCM said:

Removing the fuel tank and cleaning it while your at it is worth it just in case.

Agreed. 

 

I'd add that this particular fuel tank really needs to be removed to install the new grommet and screen anyway so ... clean out the tank while it's out.  

 

Also. Check the gasket on the fuel tank cap.  

Be sure the cap is allowing proper ventilation.  

[JCM 9,169]

I don't remove the tank to replace the valve unless it is bad looking inside. What is the reason ?

Edited July 16, 2023 by JCM

[ebinmaine 67,545]

14 minutes ago, JCM said:

I don't remove the tank to replace the valve unless it is bad looking inside. What is the reason ?

This is a top tank tractor. The tank is super easy to pop right out. One spring.  

It's far easier to remove the tank to change the grommet than leave the tank in place and fight it being upside down in limited space. 

 

[oliver2-44 9,756]

As said plan on replacing the valve/filter and grommet. The old rubber grommets harden and are a big bear to put back in.

The new ones are only a little bear to install.

vaseline or oil the grommet before installing.

[GAJoe 844]

2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Agreed. 

 

I'd add that this particular fuel tank really needs to be removed to install the new grommet and screen anyway so ... clean out the tank while it's out.  

 

Also. Check the gasket on the fuel tank cap.  

Be sure the cap is allowing proper ventilation.  

@ebinmaineIs this the correct cap? Thanks for chiming in!

 

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by GAJoe

[ebinmaine 67,545]

15 minutes ago, GAJoe said:

correct cap

Not sure if it's original or not but what you want to look for is that it vents air properly into the top without allowing excess splash out.  

 

There should be a hole in the black plastic through the center of the top. 

The hole through the white plastic interior should be offset from that. 

You won't need much air movement but it does matter.  

 

 

[GAJoe 844]

18 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Not sure if it's original or not but what you want to look for is that it vents air properly into the top without allowing excess splash out.  

 

There should be a hole in the black plastic through the center of the top. 

The hole through the white plastic interior should be offset from that. 

You won't need much air movement but it does matter.  

 

 

No hole in this so I'll put one in it in the center. Thanks!

Before you replied I ran it with the cap loosened slightly to make suren air could get in but no difference. I did get a shot of the screen. And I noticed that the filter that I had added in January wasn't "gas-logged" but did have about 1/4 to 1/2 inch gas in it. I'm thinking that I need to order a gromet, valve, and air filter and see if that helps before diggin' in deeper. Probably get a carb' rebuild kit in same order to save shipping later.

Edited July 16, 2023 by GAJoe

[ebinmaine 67,545]

Having a fuel filter only part full is normal.  

 

That screen is looking a bit ragged. 

 

Definitely do a carb rebuild.

IMHO:

That really needs to be considered a part of consistent maintenance nowadays.  

 

Carefully check the upper shaft to carb body clearance.  

It should not be able to move much other than the standard circular motion. 

If that's loose it'll allow too much air along with difficulty regulating what does get.  

 

If that needs help lemme know. I keep the parts here to fix them. 

 

[Ed Kennell 38,191]

What works for me to install the new grommet and valve.

 

I lube the grommet and barbed fitting with Vaseline.

Then insert the fitting into the grommet up to the first barb. Do not push the barb in at this time.

Then insert the grommet in the tank with a slanted twisting motion.

The push the barbed fitting into the grommet expanding it to make the seal to the tank.

[GAJoe 844]

I found why the screen was laid over. Looks like the dryer lint screen. And the hole in the cap was there but maybe had been sealed. It's there now. I gave the tank a good cleaning. I couldn't believe how much clippings were between the control panel and the fuel tank.

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by GAJoe

[ineedanother 1,369]

3 hours ago, GAJoe said:

No hole in this so I'll put one in it in the center. Thanks!

Before you replied I ran it with the cap loosened slightly to make suren air could get in but no difference. I did get a shot of the screen. And I noticed that the filter that I had added in January wasn't "gas-logged" but did have about 1/4 to 1/2 inch gas in it. I'm thinking that I need to order a gromet, valve, and air filter and see if that helps before diggin' in deeper. Probably get a carb' rebuild kit in same order to save shipping later.

I can't tell for sure but that looks to me like sand in your fuel tank. It's very likely that you'll find a bit of a mess in the bowl on the carb and that it could use some compressed air to clean out the jets and drillings. I would replace the fuel lines and clean the whole system while I was at it. Pretty cheap maintenance IMO.

[GAJoe 844]

26 minutes ago, ineedanother said:

I can't tell for sure but that looks to me like sand in your fuel tank. It's very likely that you'll find a bit of a mess in the bowl on the carb and that it could use some compressed air to clean out the jets and drillings. I would replace the fuel lines and clean the whole system while I was at it. Pretty cheap maintenance IMO.

I gave the fuel tank a good cleaning and will be getting fuel rated clear vinyl hose to replace the hardened black fuel lines. Getting a carb' rebuild kit.

[ineedanother 1,369]

2 minutes ago, GAJoe said:

I gave the fuel tank a good cleaning and will be getting fuel rated clear vinyl hose to replace the hardened black fuel lines. Getting a carb' rebuild kit.

Lots of opinions here but not many in favor of the clear or "next best thing" fuel line. I would recommend Gates or whatever your local NAPA has in stock.

[ebinmaine 67,545]

7 hours ago, ineedanother said:

Lots of opinions here but not many in favor of the clear or "next best thing" fuel line. I would recommend Gates or whatever your local NAPA has in stock.

 

I'd agree. 

I really like being able to see the fuel in the lines for diagnostic reasons. 

But..... 

 

I've tried yellow in a couple brands. Wasn't long lived at all. 

I had VERY poor luck with the clear.  

 

I've been using the blue line but it's only lasting us about 3 or 4 years. 

When this roll is gone I may go to either metal or black rubber. 

[GAJoe 844]

2 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

I'd agree. 

I really like being able to see the fuel in the lines for diagnostic reasons. 

But..... 

 

I've tried yellow in a couple brands. Wasn't long lived at all. 

I had VERY poor luck with the clear.  

 

I've been using the blue line but it's only lasting us about 3 or 4 years. 

When this roll is gone I may go to either metal or black rubber. 

Good to know.

Thanks for the heads up!

[peter lena 8,631]

@GAJoe  agree that the fuel issue is the most consistant issue  out there , having experimented and heard many views , trials . the most consistant change I made years back , was to add a neck full STABIL  fuel storage additive to all my fuel , that would be every time I top off my tanks . can,t tell how many top offs I get out of a bottle , but any related fuel line breakdown , crud in the carb bowl , is non existant . think about it , ethenol breaks down rubber hose .  if your fuel is always treated with a storage fuel chemical , for long time sitting , and you have no break down in your carb , or fuel filters , its cheaper , then the ethenol treated fuel , and easier to regularly add . regularly use my horses , rotate , usage , no fuel issues at all . my thought of adding a frame length of steel tubing , for fuel , just clear vinyl at ends , still in trial setting . for what it costs , a carb clean out , fuel filters , clean tank , STA BIL , has kept mine hose  break down , clear . I use regular ethenol fuel , with no issues , have my body armour on , pete 

[GAJoe 844]

On 7/16/2023 at 4:52 PM, ebinmaine said:

Having a fuel filter only part full is normal.  

 

That screen is looking a bit ragged. 

 

Definitely do a carb rebuild.

IMHO:

That really needs to be considered a part of consistent maintenance nowadays.  

 

Carefully check the upper shaft to carb body clearance.  

It should not be able to move much other than the standard circular motion. 

If that's loose it'll allow too much air along with difficulty regulating what does get.  

 

If that needs help lemme know. I keep the parts here to fix them. 

 

There is side to side movement with that shaft. What do you do for that? Drill and install a bushing? I see that ISaveTractors has replacement #30 carb's for $70 with very good reviews. A tractor puller that lives up the road said that the float may have a hole in it.

[GAJoe 844]

5 hours ago, GAJoe said:

There is side to side movement with that shaft. What do you do for that? Drill and install a bushing? I see that ISaveTractors has replacement #30 carb's for $70 with very good reviews. A tractor puller that lives up the road said that the float may have a hole in it.

I did research and found it about a third of the way down the page:

http://gardentractorpullingtips.com/a1carb.htm

 

[ebinmaine 67,545]

6 hours ago, GAJoe said:

There is side to side movement with that shaft. What do you do for that? Drill and install a bushing? I see that ISaveTractors has replacement #30 carb's for $70 with very good reviews. A tractor puller that lives up the road said that the float may have a hole in it.

 

There's a 7/16" bore around the top of the shaft. Just enough room to tap in a pair of bushing washers that have 1/4" holes to match the shaft. 

 

Including freight and my parts it costs $45-$55 to rebuild the old one but they're prone to running better than most replacement carbs. 

 

isavetractors' carb seems to be a reasonable facsimile for a factory carb. 

 

The float may have a hole. It isn't common in my experiences but I don't live in your weather environment which can change things. 

 

 

If you buy a new carb please be sure to keep the old one.  

Those are valuable even as a rebuildable core.  

 

 

[GAJoe 844]

I was able to get the throttle plate screws out successfully and found the shaft to be worn by 5 thousandths.

 

[ebinmaine 67,545]

2 minutes ago, GAJoe said:

I was able to get the throttle plate screws out successfully and found the shaft to be worn by 5 thousandths.

 

At the top of the carburetor there should be a 7/16 hole.

 

I can send you a couple of washers. And some screws.

 

That and a cleaning and I think you'd be back in business.  

 

 

[GAJoe 844]

4 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

At the top of the carburetor there should be a 7/16 hole.

 

I can send you a couple of washers. And some screws.

 

That and a cleaning and I think you'd be back in business.  

 

 

I really do appreciate it. If I need them I'll let you know. I located some bushings at a local hardware by phone to pick up tomorrow; hope they're correct. They have a good selection of screws also so hopefully I have it covered already. I got some kerosene and put in a little Berryman's B-12 to soak it overnight to get any varnish out of the places that I cant get to. I located a carb' rebuild kit at a local small engine shop. I went ahead and took the sheet-metal off and will pull the head to see how flat it looks on a granite countertop with .003 feeler gage. While I have the carb out of the way I'll check the valves. I need to get it back on line this weekend if possible. It's hot down here to be pushing again.

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by GAJoe

[ebinmaine 67,545]

Remember to pick up some Loctite for the throttle blade screws. 

 

On the cylinder head...

I know what the spec reads but I don't follow it. 

Flat. Is. Flat. 

 

We plane the heads on ALL the engines we have apart.  

 

 

Glad to see you're really doing right by that old iron.