20' Utility trailer rebuild project

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,315]

How did you tow it home? 

[ebinmaine 67,422]

18 minutes ago, Sparky said:

How did you tow it home? 

2012 Pilot. 

Same as we'll be using to haul tractors.  

 

[lynnmor 7,305]

While analyzing the trailer frame, look at how the floor is supported outboard of the main frame rails.  Many travel trailers have flimsy outriggers and depend on floor joists to support the walls, of course yours is no longer there.  Many of the cheaper landscape trailers have a second rail along the sides that are much more than sides, they also are a supporting member.

 

The trailer tongue should penetrate the cross piece and be welded to the main frame rails.

 

Electric brakes are a simple thing, just an electromagnet that rides against the armature surface of the brake drum and the higher the current the more braking.  Wiring is about as simple as connecting a light bulb.  You need a brake controller in the tow vehicle, if there is one offered by the vehicle manufacturer (which I doubt), that is what you want.  ALL aftermarket controllers work by guessing what you want and it has been that way for twenty years.  As an example, your tow vehicle is sliding on wet leaves so the controller sees you are not slowing so it contributes nothing.  Yes, you will find multitudes that defend this garbage.  An OEM controller will send current to the trailer brakes in relation to the amount of fluid pressure you have created with your foot on the brake pedal.

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,422]

13 hours ago, lynnmor said:

analyzing the trailer frame, look at how the floor is supported outboard of the main frame rails.

Several pieces of good advice there @lynnmor and other folks as well. 

 

I VERY much appreciate all the input.  

 

Here's a pic that shows the cross pieces as the PO built it. 

 

There's one at the front hiding behind the forward stake pocket and approximately every two feet I think?

 

 

 

We'll be going through doing a fine-tooth-comb inspection of course. 

Any main frame or suspension mount repair needs will be done by a Fabrication Professional. I don't think there are any. 

Any other work such as reinforcing or repairing cross members we'll do.  

 

At this point the plan is to order 4 new tires. We'll keep the best two current tires for spares. (One isn't very old.)

 

Remove ALL wood. 

 

Assess and research the most appropriate decking material. I'll start a separate thread on both.  

 

As it's built we'll be adding some sort of removable sides.  

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,422]

Trina's been working from home today and the sun is out so obviously the old deck of the trailer "fell off" ...

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,422]

We moved the trailer frame into the barn so we can work on it rain or shine. 

 

Here are some of the things we'll be repairing/changing.  

 

Small rot hole in the red circle. That cross member will be replaced. 

 

 

It's difficult to see from the pic but there's a (cap??) piece of steel over the top of the original camper frame,  designated by the blue line and green squiggles. It appears to be a poor attempt at lengthening the rear deck about 6" to 10"  but that's just a guess. 

It's only a cap. No bottom. That's definitely coming off. 

The last two cross members will be replaced or reinforced as well. 

 

 

This angle iron is obviously bent/tweaked. Another area for replacement or reinforcements.  

 

 

 

 

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,315]

How wide is it between the fenders (I haven’t read the entire thread yet so maybe that’s what I should do first before asking questions  )

 

EDIT: Just read it all…

[ebinmaine 67,422]

Here's a video explaining the project a bit. 

 

 

 

And the progress for today.  

I got some tools laid out. 

Couple things hung. 

And removed what's left of  the rear bumper.  

 

 

[Horse Newbie 7,069]

On 6/23/2023 at 8:38 PM, SylvanLakeWH said:

Hey look at it this way, if you find it ain't road worthy it would make a nice trailer for... what's that tractor named...???  

 

uhm...

 

 

 

 

oh yeah..

Molasses, isn’t it ?

[ebinmaine 67,422]

Running low on time available today.  

I do want to keep a steady ish pace and try to get this trailer usable for @JCM Jim's Meet n Greet in Sept.  

We already have a busy couple months ahead but I think we can make it happen.  

 

I got the rest of the DOT light wiring harness removed and cleaned up the area a tiny bit.  

 

Next few days.. Camping!!

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,422]

Last July I decided to sideline this trailer project and put focus on more current to-do list subjects because I knew it wouldn't be usable by last September. 

 

It's still in mind but likely won't be aiming for use until fall 2025. 

At this particular time we're getting the new workshop space ready then remodeling the basement. 

 

Sometime in the last few days while meandering around for work I've seen a trailer or 3 that gave me some interesting ideas. 

My original plan for this build was to replace or add to the cross frame and top it with either decking like 2 x 8 or sheet goods like marine plywood etc.  

What I saw recently might change that and I want to get some input from you folks. 

 

The trailers I've seen in the past few days are an open concept affair. Think car trailer but lighter duty. 

 

I have two primary goals. 

1. Carry 4 or 5 tractors depending on implementation or total weight. 

(2 front, 2 rear, one centered between the axles.)

2. Trina and I both believe that if one has equipment one should be able to transport it. We'd like to use this trailer to haul the Wally Digger Backhoe (centered between the axles.)

 

Our other trailer is a Commercial Grade 5 x 8 on which we've used HF 6 ft loading ramps - set crossways - to haul 2 tractors. Other than the rear being bouncy it's been a success. (It's a heavy duty trailer so its suspension is stiff.)

 

Here's my incomplete thought process. 

Add a full-length center beam for structural integrity. 

Use the same HF 6 ft loading ramps to hold the tractors. 5 sets of course for 5 tractors. Most likely the forward 2 would be crossways and the other 3 would parallel the OE frame rails. 

All properly supported of course. 

 

The width of the trailer is currently around 8', 3" including stake pockets.

I'd narrow that to more like 6', 6" to 7 ft total. 

Side rails would all be tied together and supported better than the current setup.  

 

The OE frame rails are about 5 feet wide so the weight of a side setting tractor would be right on them for transport. 

 

 

 

Thoughts comments questions suggestions? 

 

 

[Handy Don 12,213]

Ho boy, I anticipate a topic nearly as filled with different opinions as the ongoing “best oil” and “correct paint color” discussions . 

 

The first questions that popped into my mind are:

- Target gross and tare weights of the trailer? In NY State, these affect licensing and equipment rules and tow vehicle requirements.

- Ability to change configuration for other uses like hauling sheet goods or other materials?

- Loading process, e.g. rear only, one or both sides, ramps fixed or removable?

- Location and mounting for containers for other equipment, e.g. fuel, tools, winch, implements. camping gear?

- Usability as a work platform for field repairs or as a tent platform?

 

Yes, I am regularly and rightfully accused of over-thinking!

[ebinmaine 67,422]

2 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Ho boy, I anticipate a topic nearly as filled with different opinions as the ongoing “best oil” and “correct paint color” discussions . 

 

Yes, I am regularly and rightfully accused of over-thinking!

 

Both of the above are exactly why I post things on this site.

Experiences vary. Knowledge varies. Laws state to state vary. All of those things come in handy when I'm overthinking something myself....

 

NOTE: At no point anywhere on the trailer will there be more than 2.5 ft between welded attachment points.

 

 

2 hours ago, Handy Don said:

 

The first questions that popped into my mind are:

- Target gross and tare weights of the trailer? In NY State, these affect licensing and equipment rules and tow vehicle requirements.

 

I'll actually have to check with my town clerk and see if there's a weight bracket that makes a big difference.

Existing trailer gross weight would be 7,000 lb because it has two axles at 3500 lb rating, each.

Tare weight is not a concern for me at this point because I won't get anywhere near the max just hauling five tractors and maybe a large cooler. It is definitely a point for future consideration.

 

 

2 hours ago, Handy Don said:

- Ability to change configuration for other uses like hauling sheet goods or other materials?

 

I don't have any intention of closing in the deck floor of this trailer. 

 I could haul sheet goods or lumber with proper bunking in the correct positions.

 

 

2 hours ago, Handy Don said:

- Loading process, e.g. rear only, one or both sides, ramps fixed or removable?

 

The front two tractors would always face sideways and would be able to be loaded from either side of the trailer.

The one between the wheel wells would face fore and aft,  as would the two in the rear.

All three of those would always be loaded from the rear of the trailer.

For the foreseeable future I would be using the same ramps that we are now and moving them around tractor to tractor to tractor as needed. I would not be opposed to having a full width lift gate at the back, or sides for that matter, in the future.

 

2 hours ago, Handy Don said:

- Location and mounting for containers for other equipment, e.g. fuel, tools, winch, implements. camping gear?

 

Glad you brought that up. Not sure exactly what I would do there yet. The only sizeable item is a very large cooler that we do use on a regular basis. There may be enough room to squeeze that in near the nose by the front two tractors but it's most certainly a consideration.

 

 

2 hours ago, Handy Don said:

- Usability as a work platform for field repairs or as a tent platform?

 

Tent platform is not a concern but a working platform certainly could be. We've swapped wheels and done other things while tractors were still sitting on the trailer. I think it would work well for that given the setup I'm considering.

 

 

 

 

[Handy Don 12,213]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

Existing trailer gross weight would be 7,000 lb because it has two axles at 3500 lb rating, each.

Tare weight is not a concern for me at this point because I won't get anywhere near the max just hauling five tractors and maybe a large cooler. It is definitely a point for future consideration

Hardly necessary to remind you that manufacturer frame load ratings are typically for the stripped bare frame--all decking, sides, and often hinged ramps are NOT included. Also, I wouldn’t go by the axle ratings -- the frame may not be equal to the sum of the axles!

 

In my mind, late 60’s and early 70’s tractors (short frames) without implements are typically ~450-500 lbs. C’s and the 00’s models are 550-600 depending on transmission & engine. So with five tractors, add in the deck or supports, ramps, filled tires & wheel weights, and miscellaneous other stuff. I’d say that could come in around 3,000. The trailer frame, axles, and wheels/tires alone may be 1,000. That’s approaching 4,000 down the road.

 

This is well above my car’s max, for example. Your tow vehicle may need beefed up suspension/brakes, tires, cooling, and electrical setup, plus a suitable (possibly leveling?) hitch. If the trailer has electric brakes, you’ll likely need a breakaway switch plus an onboard battery set to charge from the electrical connection.

 

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

The front two tractors would always face sideways and would be able to be loaded from either side of the trailer.

The one between the wheel wells would face fore and aft,  as would the two in the rear.

All three of those would always be loaded from the rear of the trailer.

Your existing system of heavy ramps as wheel supports should be fine for the rear two. I’d consider solid or mesh decking for the front three, especially if the decking will reinforce the structure of the trailer frame by reducing flex between the hitch and the axles.

Hinged ramps are SO convenient but SO terrible for aero performance I’d leave it out. That said, one set of ramps easily (and securely) attachable at any loading/unloading position makes good sense to me. If they can travel conveniently attached alongside or under the tractors, so much the better. I have slight frustration that my 1,000 lb capacity folding ramps have one curved and one straight section so they don’t nest neatly for storage, but I’m able to load/unload with the mower deck or mid blade attached without snagging--far safer and easier.

 

On thing I am strongly considering is adding fixed (or easily-removable) tie-down points to my working class tractor so that loading and unloading go faster. I put four on my chipper and it has saved me a LOT of time!

[ebinmaine 67,422]

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

Hardly necessary to remind you that manufacturer frame load ratings are typically for the stripped bare frame--all decking, sides, and often hinged ramps are NOT included. Also, I wouldn’t go by the axle ratings -- the frame may not be equal to the sum of the axles!

 

DEFINITELY a valid point. 

Unfortunately I have no way of knowing what the original manufacturer had in mind because it was rebuilt from a camper to a flatbed many years ago. 

I think it's reasonable to figure the axles are likely HEAVIER than the frame capacity,  for safety reasons. 

 

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

 

In my mind, late 60’s and early 70’s tractors (short frames) without implements are typically ~450-500 lbs. C’s and the 00’s models are 550-600 depending on transmission & engine. So with five tractors, add in the deck or supports, ramps, filled tires & wheel weights, and miscellaneous other stuff. I’d say that could come in around 3,000. The trailer frame, axles, and wheels/tires alone may be 1,000. That’s approaching 4,000 down the road.

 

I believe that's a reasonable estimate.

 

Even the lightest of two axle trailers I've ever seen was a 4,000 lb rating. 

 

Still adequate for me. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

 

This is well above my car’s max, for example. Your tow vehicle may need beefed up suspension/brakes, tires, cooling, and electrical setup, plus a suitable (possibly leveling?) hitch. If the trailer has electric brakes, you’ll likely need a breakaway switch plus an onboard battery set to charge from the electrical connection.

 

All covered.  

 

 

The current tow vehicle would be Trina's Pilot.  

That's rated at 4,500 lbs towing capacity.  

I simply wouldn't go that high.  

Any future purchased vehicles or when I use my truck would be rated higher. 

 

I'm fairly sure here in Maine the law requires a trailer above 3,500 lb Total capacity to have working electric brakes and that requires a battery. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

 

Your existing system of heavy ramps as wheel supports should be fine for the rear two. I’d consider solid or mesh decking for the front three, especially if the decking will reinforce the structure of the trailer frame by reducing flex between the hitch and the axles.

 

 

Keep in mind there will be a 2" square tube heavy wall center beam added all the way from the trailer ball mount to the rear bumper. 

 

I've also seriously considered adding an X-brace from each front frame corner to a point just forward of the front axle. This would virtually eliminate most flexing of the forward frame. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

Hinged ramps are SO convenient but SO terrible for aero performance I’d leave it out.

 

True. I'd forgotten about that. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

That said, one set of ramps easily (and securely) attachable at any loading/unloading position makes good sense to me. If they can travel conveniently attached alongside or under the tractors, so much the better. I have slight frustration that my 1,000 lb capacity folding ramps have one curved and one straight section so they don’t nest neatly for storage, but I’m able to load/unload with the mower deck or mid blade attached without snagging--far safer and easier.

 

Our ramps nest together OK but they are a bowed style. 

I'm still thinking about how to carry those other than just strapping them to the trailer. I'd like a better faster permanent attachment point. Maybe with pins to fasten and straps to keep still for noise prevention.  

 

 

 

[ranger 1,750]

If you are considering permanently? attached loading ramps, you could maybe split and hinge them to reduce height when stowed. The height should then be no higher than the load, (tractors), and could also provide a bit of a safety factor if anything came loose and tried to slide backwards.🙀

[87 416-8 horse 420]

Once you get your trailer going you’ll have to get your old ferd going. 

[ebinmaine 67,422]

2 hours ago, ranger said:

safety factor

It's that and convenience I'd like. 

 

 

24 minutes ago, 87 416-8 horse said:

Once you get your trailer going you’ll have to get your old ferd going. 

 

Oohhhh absolutely. 

 

[JPWH 6,033]

The bifold ramp gate works real well.

This is my bifold ramp. It reduced the wind drag from the one piece ramp.

[Jon Paulsen 290]

On 6/27/2024 at 8:39 PM, JPWH said:

The bifold ramp gate works real well.

Ohhhhhh I like that! Need to do that to my trailer. 

[Digger 66 3,478]

I didn't have time to read through each and every post but , picture a semi-box trailer without the walls and roof .

I'm no engineer but I'd bet at least 80% of a trailers capacity would be removed if the walls & roof are removed .

Looks like you're moving along nicely on the project though .

[ebinmaine 67,422]

21 hours ago, Digger 66 said:

I didn't have time to read through each and every post but , picture a semi-box trailer without the walls and roof .

I'm no engineer but I'd bet at least 80% of a trailers capacity would be removed if the walls & roof are removed .

Looks like you're moving along nicely on the project though .

 

Thanks Digger. 

 

I can't comment on the actual reduction in weight capacity but I certainly agreed with your concept. 

 

The previous owner had used this trailer for many year hauling five ATVs. 

His cross bars will be left in place. 

 

I'd like to add strength and rigidity for hauling our own tractors...