New Muffler for Clyde

[8ntruck 6,991]

Clyde, the C-195 has a muffler that is kaput.  The inlet pipe has separated from the end of the can, leaving the can and exit pipe to rattle around.  Direct replacement mufflers do not exist.  If they do, I have not been able to find them.  So, I stopped by the TSC store the other day and bought a Stanly IH-1 muffler for $33.  This is intended for an IH Cub.  The pipe size is right, but the can section is too long, as you can see in the following pictures:

 

 

 

The general plan is to try to shorten the muffler to fit in the same space as the original.

 

Here is what I have to start with.  The new muffler and the pieces parts of the original muffler:

 

 

Step 1.  Adapt the original inlet elbow to the new muffler (grinding sounds, sparks):

 

 

Dang.  Sorry.  Moved the camera.  Well, you get the idea.  

 

Step 2.  Tack the old elbow onto the new muffler (more grinding sounds, sparks, and wire feed welding sizzle), then a trial fit on Clyde:

 

 

 

 

Obvious hood interference.  No way I am going to chop up the hood.  How much shorter does the muffler need to be?

 

 

Not enough hands to run the camera, hold the muffler and the tape measure, but the muffler needs to be about 3 1/2" shorter.

 

At this point, my wife walks into the shed and asks what'cha doing?  So I explain the plan.  She gives me a quizzical look, then says 'why don't you hang it outside of the hood?  I think it would look funny (amusing is what she meant).'  So I close the hood and place the muffler in the classic stack position.  She says  'Yup.  Like that.'  I explain that I don't really want a stack.  I get the 'are you crazy?' look, and she walks off.  

 

Well, I get to thinking that making a stack would be a whole bunch less work than sectioning 3 1/2" out of the muffler.  So, I says to myself 'self, why not give a stack a try?  I can always hacky chop to fit it under the hood later'.

 

Tomorrow, I'm going to visit the local muffler shop or NAPA store and pick up a couple of clamps and a 1 1/2" elbow.

 

Stay tuned.

 

[ebinmaine 67,261]

6 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

Stay tuned.

This I can do. 

 

6 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

 (grinding sounds, sparks):

 

6 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

(more grinding sounds, sparks, and wire feed welding sizzle),

 

 

Nice job creating a clear mental picture of the physical work being done. 

Must say ... A smile was created as well. 

🙂

 

[Pullstart 62,783]

If you get the exit high enough, and run that elbow 90 degrees to the right, it may help with the fumigating 

[8ntruck 6,991]

4 hours ago, Pullstart said:

If you get the exit high enough, and run that elbow 90 degrees to the right, it may help with the fumigating 

Yup.  The modified plan now is to get the muffler mounted as a stack, then get some seat time to decide if further changes are needed.

[ebinmaine 67,261]

Just now, 8ntruck said:

Yup.  The modified plan now is to get the muffler mounted as a stack, then get some seat time to decide if further changes are needed.

 

The one piece of advice I can give you on that is, put a flapper at the top and NOT a 90° bend.

The one I have on Cinnamon horse is just about the right height where if it's running it blows directly in my face as I walk by....

 

[8ntruck 6,991]

Picked up a 1 1/2" 90 elbow from NAPA this afternoon.  One end flared, the other not.  The flared end fit on the exhaust manifold, the flared end of the old muffler tacked to the new muffler fit the plain end of the new elbow.

 

Great!  This is going to be a price of cake.  Mocked the pieces up on Clyde.  Looked good with the hood open.  The new elbow held the hood open by about 4" at the dash tower when I tried to close the hood..  OK, untack the old short elbow from the muffler, put it on the manifold, then the new elbow out from under the hood to the muffler.  An improvement, but still held the hood open.   So much for the piece of cake.

 

The short elbow needed to be shortened another 1 1/4".  That removed about 90% of the flared end.  The closest muffler shop with an expander is about 10 miles away.  When I called, the guy didn't know if it would work on 1 1/2" tubing.  Guess I'll find out tomorrow.

 

I'm not really sure that their expander will work on my piece, so I need to come up with a plan C.  Harbor Freight maybe?  Nearest one is about 25 miles away.

[ebinmaine 67,261]

10 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

plan C

Online?

Plumbing supply?

Hardware stores?

Good old school auto parts place?

 

[8ntruck 6,991]

Plan C - muffler shop 10 miles away.

Plan D - 1 1/2" to something else adapter pipe from auto parts store, then hack and weld some more.

Plan E - a box fill of header blends from Summet Racing.

Future project preparation - pick up a set of cheap headers at the next swap meet I go to.

[ebinmaine 67,261]

1 minute ago, 8ntruck said:

Future project preparation - pick up a set of cheap headers

Try to get something for a 4-cylinder compact car so the tubes are small and you may have some tight radiuses in them. 

[Handy Don 12,137]

6 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

Plan C - muffler shop 10 miles away.

Plan D - 1 1/2" to something else adapter pipe from auto parts store, then hack and weld some more.

Plan E - a box fill of header blends from Summet Racing.

Future project preparation - pick up a set of cheap headers at the next swap meet I go to.

Other future project preparation (and road trip) Go see @Pullstart and play with his tubing bender!

[8ntruck 6,991]

I forgot about @Pullstart tubing bender.  Kevin, do you by any chance have a tube expander as well?

 

Got to the muffler shop today.  In and out in less than 5 minutes.  No charge.  got home and tacked everything together:

 

 

Was around dusk when I took that second picture.  I'll edit a better one in tomorrow.

 

Anyhow, I managed to get 'welds' around both joints that are plenty ugly and need lots of finishing.  Blew as many holes through the tubing as I did welds.  I did seem to get better as I dialed the voltage and wire feed speed down. 

 

Need to work out the manifold clamp details tomorrow, then take Clyde out for a test run.

 

I have not yet gotten a handle on welding lighter gage stock.  I'll have to get some 1/16" thick stock and mess around with the welder to find a happy setting for the lighter stock.

Edited June 17, 2023 by 8ntruck

[ebinmaine 67,261]

Is there a need or plan to run a brace for the muffler?

 

Thinner metals can definitely be a challenge to weld.  

That's the reason I decided to get a light duty HF Flux Core wire feed welder. 

I'm hoping to have that set up in a workable space today, along with a few other metal tools. 

[Jon Paulsen 290]

I tried to weld the muffler on my little horse about a month ago. I hadn't welded in years and used a huge stick welder. Forgot about the high/low switch and though I had it set to about the minimum for the electrode DC+ I think. Whatever DC was good for that rod. Forgot about high/low switch. I saw flash inside my mask reflected off the wall behind me. I made the dime sized hole into a silver dollar sized hole. Got it to the guy next door who has and knows how to use a gas mig. He did a wonderful job. I could have just bought a new muff, still available for only $279 (IIRC). 

 

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

Is there a need or plan to run a brace for the muffler?

 

Thinner metals can definitely be a challenge to weld.  

That's the reason I decided to get a light duty HF Flux Core wire feed welder. 

I'm hoping to have that set up in a workable space today, along with a few other metal tools. 

 

I got one of those HF 120 VAC wire welders and didn't like the results. I don't blame the welder (the tool); I blame the welder (me). This was maybe 10 or more years ago. I only used it a few times.. should probably try practicing  The worst thing was the spatter. I got the tiny beads all over the place that seem very resistant to grinding away. I did get good penetration and it welds vertical OK. I welded a tongue jack to my trailer and it's still sticking to the trailer. I think you'll have to play around with the settings. I also think their wire is or was dirty. I know it was. Wipe your finger on it and get a black line tattoo. So, as painful as it may be, if you're having trouble, maybe get 10 or 20 feed unwound, wipe with acetone, wind it back up and try that. I did not try cleaning the wire. I gave up early and went back to my old Shumaker 120 VAC buzz box. 

 

After coffee and gardening, I'll see if I can translate this to English. 

 

May you get nice stacks of dimes 

 

Pre-coffee Edit/PS: I would be concerned for the manifold if no brace, but not seeing it that's a guess-concern 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Jon Paulsen

[Pullstart 62,783]

I’m a big fan of old headers!  Their wide assortment of bends is perfect for custom stuff!

 

Bill I have an expander of the big bender, but I’m not sure if it’ll go down to 1-1/2 or not.

[Handy Don 12,137]

2 hours ago, Pullstart said:

I’m a big fan of old headers!  Their wide assortment of bends is perfect for custom stuff!

 

Bill I have an expander of the big bender, but I’m not sure if it’ll go down to 1-1/2 or not.

A friend local to me has a bender with an expander that he got at auction from a car dealer service department that used to bend their own exhaust pipes. Dealer sold it because: a) they couldn’t find techs with the skills to use it, and b) vendor-supplied pipes made on digitally-controlled benders fit perfectly every time and are often next-day available!

[8ntruck 6,991]

@ebinmaine Is there a brace in the plans?  Maybe.  That is what the seat time yesterday and today is going to help determine.  The stack is being held on by the same clamp used on the original muffler.  After today's 20 minutes of use or so, I am able to  grab the end of the stack and rotate it slightly on the manifold.  Will have to try tightening the clamp a bit more.  If this does not work, a brace of some sort will be in order.

 

As mentioned in my previous post, here are some better pictures:

 

 

 

 

[Handy Don 12,137]

It looks good. I’d love to hear what the sound level is.

My 2¢? Don’t take any chances--put a brace on it. At that height, it has a lot of leverage to force movement at the clamp and if that breaks, well...it won’t be good.

[8ntruck 6,991]

I'd describe the sound as deep and mellow.  No sharp high frequency impulses.

 

For the sake of being bullet proof, a brace shoud be a good addition.  Got to figure out a good place.  Will probably need to weld a tab on the bottom of the elbow for an attachment point.

Edited June 19, 2023 by 8ntruck

[ebinmaine 67,261]

6 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

Will probably need to weld a tab on the bottom of the elbow for an attachment point

I used an exhaust clamp on Cinnamon Horse's K341 stack. 

[8ntruck 6,991]

I built a brace for Clyde's stack today.  Modified a 1 1/2" EMT wall clamp and custom formed (beat to fit) a piece of 1 x something strip of steel left over from some other project.

 

I'll get a little more seat time on this set up to make sure it is working for me, then do some more clean up and add paint.

 

Oops.  I need to pay my forum membership!  When I turn red again, I'll post a picture.

Edited June 23, 2023 by 8ntruck

[Jon Paulsen 290]

Can you get the brace to mount to the engine? It seems that would be better than going to the frame, where the mount might want to move one way and the engine another way. But that's just my tiny brain's thought. Looking forward to a photo or two when you can. 

[Handy Don 12,137]

5 minutes ago, Jon Paulsen said:

Can you get the brace to mount to the engine? It seems that would be better than going to the frame, where the mount might want to move one way and the engine another way. But that's just my tiny brain's thought. Looking forward to a photo or two when you can. 

Your thinking is sound, if there is a suitable, i.e. convenient and strong enough, place on the engine to attach the brace. In many cases, there isn’t.

[Jon Paulsen 290]

Maybe he can get it down to an engine mounting bolt. 

[8ntruck 6,991]

Nope.  The brace went to the frame.  The engine is solidly mounted to the frame, so any motion of the frame realitive to the engine should be small. 

 

It might not be a bad idea to put the frame end of the brace in a rubber isolated mount  (think rubber shock type washers) to absorb the un-matching vibration between the frame and the stack, though.

[Thor27 767]

Wouldn't over think it. Your stock muffler was braced to the frame also, that made it 40ish years...

Edited June 24, 2023 by Thor27