Bob Nakon 55 #1 Posted June 8, 2023 Hello Gents, Unfortunately I have been unable to get out and work on my Horses for quite a while. Yesterday my wife and I were getting ready to but the mower deck on the C160. My wife noticed a crack on the transaxle. I have posted a picture of it. Is anyone familiar with what you see? I don't know where to start with this. Very disappointed. I bought rebuild kits for this machine and my c120. At this point both are down. I guess I'll start with this crack. Any help is appreciated. Bob near Ann Arbor 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,291 #2 Posted June 8, 2023 (edited) Whoops wrong one! Edited June 8, 2023 by squonk 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handy Don 12,436 #4 Posted June 8, 2023 This appears terrible, but there are several threads that describe different approaches to fixing it. At least one member did it without separating the frame from the transaxle or taking the tractor apart extensively! Personally, I preferred (and did) weld in a substantial reinforcement plate as part of a full-tractor refresh, but the bolt-on technique does work. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lee1977 6,774 #5 Posted June 8, 2023 The crack need to be welded up first then add a reinforcing plate welded in. Here is my Raider I added a reinforcing plate there is also a couple of strips behind so it's solid at the bolts. 4 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handy Don 12,436 #6 Posted June 8, 2023 The bolt-on technique I remember used holes in the sides of the F-plate--the two at the bottom and two added at the top. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrc 840 #7 Posted June 9, 2023 bob, too bad you are so far away. i have some nice frames. no cracks. i would have to think there is someone in your area with a better frame. the reinforcement plate is a good idea too. good luck mike 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handy Don 12,436 #8 Posted June 9, 2023 9 minutes ago, mrc said: bob, too bad you are so far away. i have some nice frames. no cracks. i would have to think there is someone in your area with a better frame. the reinforcement plate is a good idea too. good luck mike Not knowing your level of expertise, I’ll cautiously comment that it can be time consuming to swap all the component from a bad frame to a good one, but it isn’t especially difficult either. The only very clear warning I will offer is that the engine and, especially, the transaxle are HEAVY. So be prepared for proper support and muscle when working on these components or you’ll be posting to the “bumps and bruises” thread. 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SylvanLakeWH 25,893 #9 Posted June 9, 2023 28 minutes ago, mrc said: i would have to think there is someone in your area with a better frame. @Pullstart - Kevin, any extras? @Bob Nakon is in the Pinckney area... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
c-series don 8,808 #10 Posted June 9, 2023 40 minutes ago, Handy Don said: Not knowing your level of expertise, I’ll cautiously comment that it can be time consuming to swap all the component from a bad frame to a good one, but it isn’t especially difficult either. The only very clear warning I will offer is that the engine and, especially, the transaxle are HEAVY. So be prepared for proper support and muscle when working on these components or you’ll be posting to the “bumps and bruises” thread. This is why you need a Wheel Horse with a loader. Makes lifting those things a breeze! 😂 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pullstart 63,080 #11 Posted June 9, 2023 @Bob Nakon I have C series auto and 8 speed frames available without cracks…. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wild Bill in VA 1,452 #12 Posted June 9, 2023 Years ago, Wheel Horse sold a repair kit for this problem, it was just a piece of 1/4 inch thick steel plate with (4) 3/8 bolts that were a 1/4 inch longer than the original. You installed the plate to "sandwich" the section of cracked frame in-between the plate and UniDrive housing. Sorry I have forgotten the part number for the kit. Yes the plate does work but don't try tp install the plate between the cracked frame and UniDrive as it will lengthen the frame by 1/4 inch and the drive belt routing will be too tight. Wild Bill in Richmond, VA 5 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Nakon 55 #13 Posted June 9, 2023 You guys are amazing. So good to hear that this can be fixed. I have one small problem, I am recovering from open heart surgery so I have restrictions on how much I can do. This means that my grass won't get mowed until July. I'm thinking I'm going to buy a $300.00 or $400.00 anyrider to mow with while I work slowly ( I'm 79. everything goes slow!) on the tractors. I'm pretty handy, ex toolmaker, so I should be able to put this together. Thanks again guys Bob 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ACman 7,618 #14 Posted June 9, 2023 (edited) @Bob Nakon there’s a guy right downtown Pinckney that welds and does onsite welding and fabrication and a couple others around . I too might have a good front frame here too and welcome to use my shop. . I have everything here to fix it , even metal for the reinforcement plate . I’m not far from you if you need to borrow my zero turn as it’s just sitting here doing nothing . I had to hire it out this year . Edited June 9, 2023 by ACman 3 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ri702bill 8,480 #15 Posted June 9, 2023 (edited) Bob - even if you go the frame swap route, DO take the time to weld-in a plate on the inside of the frame o that issue never pops up again. The afore mentioned WH Repair Kit I believe is no longer available. Attached below the picture is the Factory document for it. I have fixed several frames. starting by gouging out the cracked area and welding and grinding from the back mating side to be flat as new. Then the new plate is welded on the inside. Even one like this severely cracked 854 frame can be repaired... Bill WH61-90 _425 Rear frame repair C- 300- 400- 500-Series.pdf Edited June 9, 2023 by ri702bill 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ri702bill 8,480 #16 Posted June 9, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, Bob Nakon said: I'm pretty handy, ex toolmaker So, as a retired Machinist / Assembler and later Machine Designer, I can share my Toolmaker joke..... What's the difference between a Machinist and a Toolmaker?? About $15 bucks an hour!!!! I worked over the years at various shops that always seemed to have one guy that could make scrap faster than all his counterparts. He was the guy that if you needed a part right now, you took your chances. IF you needed it right, he was NOT the guy for the job.... Had one that said he was a Toolmaker - after seeing some of his sub-par work, I then referred to him as a "Shoemaker"... Edited June 9, 2023 by ri702bill 3 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ACman 7,618 #17 Posted June 9, 2023 (edited) If there’s anyone out there that could make a CAD drawing of the reinforcement plates or uses cnc plasma software I have a cnc plasma table that just sits in the barn . I also have a hand held so we could go old school cad ( cardboard, aided design ) . @ri702bill I was a precision ( +/-.0005 ) grinder in the hard back in the late 90’s . I know what you’re talking about scrap . Some people aren’t meant to be toolmakers . Edited June 9, 2023 by ACman 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lynnmor 7,352 #18 Posted June 9, 2023 I'll clean this up a bit: An engineer gets an idea for a new butt hole. A designer draws it up. A machinist makes the thing. A toolmaker makes it poop. 1 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Nakon 55 #19 Posted June 12, 2023 It doesn't look like a big job. The hard part is working underneath the tractor. It will have to wait awhile, we all have Covid over here. Really, if I had the size of the plate and center to center hole dimensions plus the notches I could make it here. All this toolmaker talk makes me miss the shop! Since we're talking tolerances now...I was a Moore jig grinder hand. Mostly gages but whatever came down the pike. The last job I did before I left the trade was a set of go/no go gages for the spherically radiused parts in the front wheel drive, tolerance was + .000025 - .000000 , -000025 + 000000. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handy Don 12,436 #20 Posted June 12, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Bob Nakon said: The last job I did before I left the trade was a set of go/no go gages for the spherically radiused parts in the front wheel drive, tolerance was + .000025 - .000000 , -000025 + 000000. 25 millionths? Wow, that is serious accuracy! Edited June 12, 2023 by Handy Don Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ri702bill 8,480 #21 Posted June 12, 2023 (edited) The last time I saw that type of accuracy was at Brown & Sharpe back in 1980. I was doing final assembly on Vertical Machining Centers, my friend Jon was building the spindle / head. Max TIR allowed on the Bull Gear shaft was 50 millionths... not adjustable and not all met that spec... Bill 8 hours ago, Bob Nakon said: The last job I did before I left the trade was a set of go/no go gages for the spherically radiused parts in the front wheel drive, tolerance was + .000025 - .000000 , -000025 + 000000. And must be checked at 68 degrees F, once they "soak" to that temp for at least 3 hours... Edited June 12, 2023 by ri702bill 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lynnmor 7,352 #22 Posted June 12, 2023 I ran Moore jig grinders, very precise machines. What I want to know is what he used for measurement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handy Don 12,436 #23 Posted June 12, 2023 20 minutes ago, lynnmor said: What I want to know is what he used for measurement. I was thinking the same! When studying electronics, we spent a LOT of time learning how to calibrate and test our test equipment before trusting its measurements. We also learned the limits of precision; college electronics lab = lots of old and abused equipment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sailman 1,294 #25 Posted June 13, 2023 Here is a fix I plan to do on my C-120 with a crack (came off this forum somewhere). I plan to clean the crack well then add JB weld to the crack before I lower the tractor onto the cinder block to tighten the crack. Then I will add the angle iron fix listed in the attached document. I believe it will solve the issue without tear down, weld, or replacing the frame. Its one option. WHEELHORSE_FRAME_PLATE_FIX.pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
