Electric cars

[Wheel Horse 3D 3,795]

5 minutes ago, sergeant said:

Aquarius 

 

 

What's old is new again! A steam engine with cumbustion instead of steam!

[Rick3478 428]

2 hours ago, wh500special said:

I think Toyota does offer panels on top of one of their models, but it mostly serves to trickle a bit of power into the battery when parked and condition the interior.

 

Steve

 

 

Exactly.  Solar panels don't have to make enough power to drive, just enough to charge whenever they can.  It's power you'll otherwise have to buy from the grid, so you're paying for it in any case.  But the grid isn't available everywhere, and solar panels can go with you.  I'd rather have solar panels than the kilodollars of other unwanted techno crap they're pushing in every vehicle.

[Rick3478 428]

3 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

I recently read some utility PhD experts report that to support the current bureaucrats schedule for transition to electric cars would mean the electric utility infrastructure (power lines, substation, power plants, etc) would need to double in that same time frame. Can you imagine the cost to replace the wires down every city street, country road, etc with larger ones in the next 20-30?years. Larger wires need larger poles and on and on.  

 

I'd have guessed more than double.  Stage 3 is what, 235KW?  I wouldn't use that much if I turned everything in the house and garage on at once.  I'll have to install what amounts to an extra range circuit just to get to stage 2 for overnight charging.

 

I predict some of us who survive long enough will have fond memories of a better time when cheap, clean petroleum powered everything.

[953 nut 55,280]

7 hours ago, Rick3478 said:

 

Exactly.  Solar panels don't have to make enough power to drive, just enough to charge whenever they can.  It's power you'll otherwise have to buy from the grid, so you're paying for it in any case.  But the grid isn't available everywhere, and solar panels can go with you.  I'd rather have solar panels than the kilodollars of other unwanted techno crap they're pushing in every vehicle.

            We always park in the shade if available,       that could be a problem.             

 

[Tractorhead 9,064]

As long as diarrhea and electric vehicles share the same characteristics, it's not for me.

with both you never know if you will reach your destination safely.

I experience this every day when an e-vehicle creeps in front of me again,

obviously with an almost empty battery.

 

This technology does not seem to be mature enough for many people in long range to be suitable for everyday use.

That may still make sense for short distances, but not really for long range.

[C-85 681]

There's several things that I wonder about moving to EV's and if this is the way to go.  My overall philosophy is that this should be 'market driven.'  I am puzzled on how this is all going to work with the government putting in charging stations, did the government put in gas stations when we went from horse and buggy to gasoline cars?  Another puzzle is the charging stations, one doesn't fit all makes, unlike gas stations where the nozzles fits all cars.  Another thing is how they work in states like mine (Vermont) where it gets cold in the winter.  I'm guessing that running the electric heaters will drastically cut their efficiency and length of travel before needing a charge.  I have several concerns like many have mentioned about the mining and disposal of all the electronics and batteries.   Like some of the other commenters, I'm a senior citizen, so I'm not sure I'll own one of these, but if I live long enough I may be forced too.  Being an older person I lived through the 70s and that surge of going to electric heat.  My house was built with electric heat in the mid 80s, and then converted to oil FHW heat before I bought it in 99, so that didn't work out then!  I sure do wonder how it will be once everyone is hooked to EVs, then our monopolized electric utilities will be able to charge a hefty price to charge all of our EVs! 

 

C-85

[ri702bill 8,327]

On 5/12/2023 at 8:33 AM, Rick3478 said:

Here's another question:  Why don't they all have solar panels?  On the roof at least, but hood, trunk and "frunk" would be good places, too?

 

Living a coastal state I see a lot of "Rag Haulers" (sailboats) How about combining the two!! A rooftop solar panel that can double as a Mainsail !! Catch a tailwind and charge up at the same time !!! Of course there would be a downside - a REAL sailboater always tacks - a zig-zag maneuver that is a nautical nuisance, just to go straight. I could just imagine them on the Interstate!! Modern Prarie Schooners.....

 

Thinking outside the box?? Absolutely - hell, we burnt the box this past winter just to stay warm!!!  

[SylvanLakeWH 25,594]

 

Old technology...

 

[Rick3478 428]

49 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

 

Living a coastal state I see a lot of "Rag Haulers" (sailboats) How about combining the two!! A rooftop solar panel that can double as a Mainsail !! Catch a tailwind and charge up at the same time !!!

 

Some of the overpasses and signage would need a bit of rework.

[ri702bill 8,327]

Nah, let them take their chances!!

Would have to be below 12 Ft for those!! How big a sail do you really need on a Prius anyway??!!

[Tractorhead 9,064]

I have heared a roumor about Natrium ion cells - and batteries.

Few Companies research with it and as far as i knew one Company have it ready for series production.

 

Benefits shall be -

Ideal for quick charging 

They should have little less energy density but also less problems about temps and poisoness.

Also the production should be more efficient without dumping lots of produced poisoned Water.

Natrium is a high available Material what can easily be found.

 

that Batteries can maybe forced a change,

but how should they beeing charged?

 

Most charge their Vehicles in the night, where max. Wind and Water Energy is available.

 

I be also curious of how the Power should be transferred here, our actual Nets be not useful therefore here.

They be overaged and worse Maintained.

[Rick3478 428]

4 hours ago, Tractorhead said:

I have heared a roumor about Natrium ion cells - and batteries.

Few Companies research with it and as far as i knew one Company have it ready for series production.

 

Benefits shall be -

Ideal for quick charging 

They should have little less energy density but also less problems about temps and poisoness.

Also the production should be more efficient without dumping lots of produced poisoned Water.

Natrium is a high available Material what can easily be found.

 

 

For those not aware, Natrium = Sodium.  It's a soft metal, heavier than Lithium and also flammable.

So yeah, you should be able to make batteries, and the oceans are full of it.  I have no idea what the

charging or temperature profile is like.  If practical, maybe we could reserve Lithium for aircraft and

use Sodium for terrestrial.

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by Rick3478
punctuation

[Tractorhead 9,064]

Found out, the Company is CATL.

But -

The Batteries be still Lithium based, that differs a little from the announcement i heared before...

 

https://www.catl.com/en/news/6017.html

 

but it sounds interestingly about Powerdensity.

 

-edit-

i have to verify some of my info‘s, because the technic is relatively new.

it seems this be definitely new battery types and the new Sodium- ion infobase will answer with some infos they be confusing. Once they told this batteries be lithium based, another info is they be an opposite to lithium.

However, the future will show what we can awaiting from them.

As long as they can be made without poising our Water and dump it poisoned into the envoirement,

this can be a interesting alternative.

We will see what the future brings.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by Tractorhead

[8ntruck 7,013]

On one of my recent road trips, I got caught behind a semi going maybe 60 mph.  My exit was coming up, so I just crawled along behind the semi.  Once traffic in the fast lane cleared, the semi pulled out and passed the car ahead of him.  That car was a Tesla running at 60 mph, probably trying to stretch its charge to the next charging station.

 

We could do very well with an electric car for daily use.  We drive probably in the range of 20 to 40 miles on an average way.  Where things kind of fall apart is when we travel to our other properties - 500 to 700 miles away.  We do this about every other month.  With the cargo we carry from place to place and the desire to not stop overnight along the way, the current crop of electric vehicles won't really work for us.  The other thing is the cost of the electric cars - they are targeted at the premium, luxury market.  I'm not going to pay that for a vehicle that won't do everything I want to.

 

GM just announced that they will be ending production of the Bolt - one of the more affordable electrics out there.  The production capacity will be converted to making their new electric pick up truck - a high margin, high price vehicle.

 

The electrics are a new product.  New products in the automotive industry are generally introduced on the premium luxury models before being moved downscale to the mainstream models.  unfortunately, I don't see the electric car technology moving downscale very quickly.

 

I also have concerns about the lifecycle energy efficiency and environmental impact of the electric vehicle.  Somewhere I recently read that a Tesla 3 that is using electricity generated by coal will take something like 75,000 miles of driving before the lack of greenhouse emissions by the car will overcome the greenhouse emissions caused by burning the coal to make electricity for charging the car and the manufacture of the car.  If renewable electrical sources (wind, solar) were used to charge the car, the break even point is about 8,000 miles.

 

Going full bore into converting our transportation fleet to 'clean' electric power without considering the manufacture of the cars, the increase in load to the power grid, and the disposal of the cars (batteries) at the end of the vehicle life, seems  me  to be an excellent way to create a mess as big or maybe even larger than continuing on with the internal combustion vehicles.

 

We need to do something take care of the environment.  But, we need to be intelligent about it and think about the big picture, not getting focused on a 'magic bullet'.  Partial electrification of our transportation fleet is probably a good thing - use it where it makes sense.  In the meantime, keep working on improving the efficiency and cleanliness of other power sources.

 

[953 nut 55,280]

On 5/13/2023 at 10:49 AM, Tractorhead said:

I have heared a roumor about Natrium ion cells - and batteries.

Thanks for bringing this up, I had not heard of them. Unfortunately China has beat us to the market.