Not so Identical Twins

[ri702bill 8,323]

While freshening up my RM-366 Gear Drive Deck for the new cutting season, I decided to do the @peter lena special - regreasing the 2 ball bearings in the PTO triple pulley.

When I pulled the 6587 hitch shaft apart, I spotted 2 problems. The end of the pulley mount was short and angled, shown in the picture,when compared to the same part I fixed a while back for the 32" "Grease Comparison" deck I refurbushed last fall. This placed the inner edge of the triple pulley too close to the frame.. Also, the inner shoulder where the deck latch rides was severely worn.

The solution was to make one repair sleeve out of 4140 that looks like a Top Hat. I had to get a little creative in the fixturing to cut down that deep. Machined both parts to give a .0015 press fit with red Loctite. Other end just required a 4140 sleeve. Cross drilled both ends for a grease port and fitting. Now the two former "womb-mates" ARE identical twins once more...

Bill

 

[peter lena 8,629]

@ri702bill  very nice job on that !  the detailing and matching lubrication makes the difference . what was a chronic noisy / rough spot have been quiet and smooth . always thought  that angular stress / heat was the killer of lubrication . once starting that , just regularly went after any trouble spot .keep it greasy , pete

[pacer 3,171]

OH YEAH!! dont you just LOVE to have access to a mill and lathe!! I some times are amazed at myself when I stop and think about that last  .... part/gizmo/shaft/etc that I just knocked out in half hour or so, that other wise would have shut the - insert whatever here - down, totally.

 

Love your set-up, bet that took a few head scratchings to rig that, and the end result .... well, thats a beauty!

 

I often tell my buddies that it'll take 10-15 mins to make the ... whatever, but setting it up will take an hour or so.......

[c-series don 8,708]

Wow! Talk about having the right tools! Oh and knowing how to use them! 👍🏻 Nice job! 

[ri702bill 8,323]

Yup -  the proper tools make the difference! Folks don't realize the time and effort that goes into a safe, proper setup. Had to go to the top level to do the interrupted cuts on this one !!

I took an Adult Machine Technologies (Machine Shop) course back in the 1980's. The class was taught by a retired Machine Shop Instructor - he was great. 

If you had a sketchy set-up prior to cutting a part, he would say " You MIGHT want to add a clamp on top in addition of the 2 Vee blocks to hold the part...".

That was his NICE way of saying you need 2, 3 if you can fit them....BEFORE you cut. There was hell to pay if your set-up was insufficient to prevent chatter!!!

I think of him every time I get one of these odd set-ups, he taught us well about the direction of cut, speeds & feeds, and most of all - the cutting forces introduced into the part and how to use them to improve the setup. This same philosophy I used in designing parts and drawings for machines - you can't paint the Machinist into a corner and not expect to hear grief!!   I do miss the quality time we as a group we had with him.

Bill

Edited May 3, 2023 by ri702bill

[pacer 3,171]

I had a clapped out South Bend and a 'mill drill'  and really didnt know much about useage of either ..... til I was fortunate enough to meet a .... genius? machinist that lived only a few miles from me and we became really good friends, and he taught me ..... all kinds of stuff!! Sadly this was late in life, especially for him - he was a HEAVY smoker, and after being my mentor for way too short of time - about 8-10 yrs, the smoking caught up with him at 63 yrs old, I miss that guy something awful. 

 

At least I came away with a souped up Bridgeport clone and a really nice 13x36 late model South Bend with most every tooling there is for them --- and thanks to Lane Sisson I can use them a to a fair degree Thank you Lane!

[ri702bill 8,323]

@pacer - there are plenty of "self help" books written for the home machinist, but absolutely NOTHING compares to having someone fully knowledgeable with the machine tool guide you thru  the proper way to do a task - there are plenty of wrong ways, too. Cutting machines require your respect and attention...

[pacer 3,171]

2 hours ago, ri702bill said:

plenty of "self help" books written for the home machinist, but absolutely NOTHING compares to having someone fully knowledgeable

 

Yes indeed, and, I think I had most of them, but until I met Lane did I realize just how little I had ... learned? from them. Similar to turning a light on when walking into a dark room.

 

A while back I was struggling with an oddball bushing and I pretty quickly thought "lemme call Lane and ask him" .... but, alas, that thought quickly passed, so I just had to figure it out with out him in person, but undoubtedly he was there in my 'brain' helping me.

[c-series don 8,708]

@ri702bill Back in the 80’s I had the best shop teacher any high school kid could ever imagine. He taught me so many things I can’t even begin to say. But a few were how to run a lathe, (both metal and wood),milling machine, welding, and even how to cast things in a forge! He kept me interested in school when I was ready to quit. I must have said it a million times by now that if it wasn’t for him I wouldn’t have a diploma. I’ve had people say to me “How do you know how to do all these things?” And I tell them Larry Lechmanski, that’s how!! We are still good friends to this day I’m proud to say 👍🏻

[wallfish 17,000]

I'm envious of the knowledge and skill you machinist guys have. Then all the tools to put that into practice.

I dabble around with a small homeowner type Atlas lathe but really have no idea what I'm doing. I can "turn" some parts but that's about it. Nothing with all of that decimal point precision.

[ri702bill 8,323]

10 hours ago, wallfish said:

I dabble around with a small homeowner type Atlas lathe but really have no idea what I'm doing. I can "turn" some parts but that's about it. Nothing with all of that decimal point precision.

John, its like the old joke about the guy that was lost in New York City. He asked a cabbie stopped at the light "How do I get to Carnegie Hall??" The cabbie replied "Practice, Man. Practice".

You can set up a magnetic base dial indicator to get precision length cuts. A rugged Quick Change toolpost is a must - the old style single rocker tool bit holder is a true PIA. You can get by with about 6 tool holders, get more as needed. You will get a good sense for speeds and feeds as you go.

Does the Atlas have a working leadscrew and half nut to do single point threading??. That is one of the toughest things to learn to do well on a manual lathe.

If looking for a tabletop Mill / Drill (as they are called), do not waste your money on either a round column or tilting column model. Look for a fixed rectangular column machine where the head tilts. Avoid the combination Mill / Lathe machines - they are NOT a good mill, it just gets in the way of the too short lathe.

Bill

Edited May 4, 2023 by ri702bill

[wallfish 17,000]

1 hour ago, ri702bill said:

John, its like the old joke about the guy that was lost in New York City. He asked a cabbie stopped at the light "How do I get to Carnegie Hall??" The cabbie replied "Practice,Man. Practice".

You can set up a magnetic base dial indicator to get precision length cuts. A rugged Quick Change toolpost is a must - the old style single rocker tool bit holder is a true PIA. You can get by with about 6 tool holders, get more as needed. You will get a good sense for speeds and feeds as you go.

Does the Atlas have a working leadscrew and half nut to do single point threading??. That is one of the toughest things to learn to do well on a manual lathe.

Bill

Cabbie joke LOL

It does have the old school rocker type bit holder. A mill attachment holder too. Some slight run out on the chuck for some reason that I haven't figured out how to stop.

 

I like the challenge of trying to figure out how to set things up for to cut from different angles inside holes and things like that. I don't know how to do it or what the right tooling for different things are because I've never really seen them in action or know what's available or even how they would work if I did. Taking a machinist class or something would be the best coarse of action but like anything, there's always something with priority over that.

 

It does have leadscrew for threading? I think. It can be engaged to slide the tool holder carriage automatically length wise, When I got it from an old house my little brother moved into there was a note in the guy's papers about how proud he was to finally thread something correctly. It seemed like he was trying it for a very long time. I'll see if I can find it, it was kind of inspiring as he seemed so excited with that sense of accomplishment. Can't remember but think it was dated like late 60s or early 70s or something

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by wallfish

[wallfish 17,000]

Here's the extent of my abilities and made this yesterday from a cut 3/4 WH steering shaft. It's going to be used to span 2 brackets that have 1/2" holes in them and the threaded holes in the ends will hold it and some floor boards and the brackets together. The shoulders fit inside the bracket holes.

Not even in the same atmosphere as the work you can do! I just hack my way through pretty much everything

Edit: Forgot to mention that everything was measured with a tape measure!

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by wallfish

[ri702bill 8,323]

John - did you tap the 3/8-16 threads using the lathe under power to pull the tailstock in?? THAT is another thing that takes time to "learn". I still prefer to hand tap the part in the lathe, using a chamfering tool in the tailstock to guide the tap holder - you get a better "feel" for what is going on, and, fewer broken taps!!

[ri702bill 8,323]

1 hour ago, wallfish said:

Cabbie joke LOL

It does have the old school rocker type bit holder. A mill attachment holder too. Some slight run out on the chuck for some reason that I haven't figured out how to stop.

 

I like the challenge of trying to figure out how to set things up for to cut from different angles inside holes and things like that. I don't know how to do it or what the right tooling for different things are because I've never really seen them in action or know what's available or even how they would work if I did. Taking a machinist class or something would be the best coarse of action but like anything, there's always something with priority over that.

 

It does have leadscrew for threading? I think. It can be engaged to slide the tool holder carriage automatically length wise, When I got it from an old house my little brother moved into there was a note in the guy's papers about how proud he was to finally thread something correctly. It seemed like he was trying it for a very long time. I'll see if I can find it, it was kind of inspiring as he seemed so excited with that sense of accomplishment. Can't remember but think it was dated like late 60s or early 70s or something

 

I guarantee you will ruin a lot of junk stock (and your patience) when learning how to single point cutting threads. I find the best way is to cut them to about 80% depth, then use a sharp thread cutting die for the final cut. Cuts to size and leaves an acceptable finish while following the concentric partial thread - the hardest thing to learn doing that is to get a good finish! (One of the HUGE plusses for a CNC lathe - can single point any thread perfectly...)

Edited May 4, 2023 by ri702bill

[ri702bill 8,323]

47 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

Some slight run out on the chuck for some reason that I haven't figured out how to stop.

Some chucks screw directly onto the spindle nose, others (like mine) have in intermediate piloted mounting plate. You can usually "bump" a couple of thousandths out of that fit...

Direct mount - probably the chuck is worn - as good as it gets. OR - use a 4 jaw independent jaw chuck, a GENUINE PIA to get the part centered, BUT you can get zero runout that way..... or a better 3 jaw.

Edited May 4, 2023 by ri702bill

[wallfish 17,000]

2 hours ago, ri702bill said:

John - did you tap the 3/8-16 threads using the lathe under power to pull the tailstock in?? THAT is another thing that takes time to "learn". I still prefer to hand tap the part in the lathe, using a chamfering tool in the tailstock to guide the tap holder - you get a better "feel" for what is going on, and, fewer broken taps!!

No, snapping another tap wasn't on the priority list. I prefer to just hand tap unless it's sheet metal stuff where the drill/tap combo flies right through.

Recently picked up one of those rivet nut tools too. Usually it's holes with bolts and nuts but it's nice for many things to have that one piece threaded. I weld regular nuts on sometimes too 

 

The 3 jaw chuck threads directly on

I remember seeing those mounting plates but didn't know how to mount it. Now way I'm capable of a 4 jaw independent.

I'll have to take the time to inspect everything and it probably needs a nicer (More expensive) chuck too.