Will this fit a c160

[Handy Don 12,216]

2 hours ago, squonk said:

Nice and heavy huh Don? . Be sure to get the blade forward enough to allow angling. The first one of these I had worked great. The one I have now I went the easy way on the mount and it's too far back to angle but I hardly ever need to move the blade so I'm going to leave it.

Definitely a bruiser. The blade/frame attachment and the blade shape are symmetrical, too, so if if ever do wear out one edge, I can switch it.

Thanks for the heads up on positioning to assure easy angling.

It’s occurred to me that it might be feasible to leave the angle lock unpinned and simply use foot guidance with the blade’s footrests when grading on an angle. I plan to try that before expending lots of effort to build a remote-control angle lock!

[chorusguy 227]

Envious of your skills

 

[squonk 41,076]

This is the tach o matic adapter fabbed up.

 

[Handy Don 12,216]

7 hours ago, squonk said:

This is the tach o matic adapter fabbed up.

 

That's right fancy, there, thanks!

I had something similar in mind so it’d stay usable on an Allis or Simplicity (1% chance?).

I am thinking, too, of allowing for some sort of “roll” movement/adjustment that’d make it easier to put a crown or side swale on the dirt/gravel roads we’ll be maintaining, kinda like a classic road grader.

If you still have that one, can you measure the distance from center of the attach-o-matic rod down to the top of the frame?

Edited April 23, 2023 by Handy Don

[squonk 41,076]

15 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

That's right fancy, there, thanks!

I had something similar in mind so it’d stay usable on an Allis or Simplicity (1% chance?).

I am thinking, too, of allowing for some sort of “roll” movement/adjustment that’d make it easier to put a crown or side swale on the dirt/gravel roads we’ll be maintaining, kinda like a classic road grader.

If you still have that one, can you measure the distance from center of the attach-o-matic rod down to the top of the frame?

Yup. I can get that tomorrow.

[squonk 41,076]

16 hours ago, Handy Don said:

 

If you still have that one, can you measure the distance from center of the attach-o-matic rod down to the top of the frame?

3 1/4" Don

[Handy Don 12,216]

4 hours ago, squonk said:

3 1/4" Don

Thank you! Filed this away with notes for fabrication.

[Handy Don 12,216]

On 4/24/2023 at 3:30 PM, Handy Don said:

Thank you! Filed this away with notes for fabrication.

Got the tractor up on the worktable and slid the Simplicity Allis grader blade in underneath to start scoping out the fabrication work needed to mount it.

As you can see, short frame tractors are a challenge for fitting mid-mounted implements!

 

I’d hoped to follow @squonk’s example and build off the existing flat plate on the blade’s frame to connect it to the tractor. That isn’t going to work for me--It puts the blade too far back, barely missing the rear tires when angled

Moving the blade forward a couple inches solves the tire clearance problem, but... now keeping the frame parallel to the ground (it isn’t in these images), the tabs used to mount the blade on a Simplicity or Allis stick up and interfere with the tie rods or front axles and the frame rails and plate interfere with the quick-attach latching arms. Lowering the front of the frame to provide clearance causes the blade to have an undesireable top-forward tilt.

My goal was not to hack the frame so that the blade could go back to a Simplicity or Allis--I am now re-thinking that goal and considering making this a one-way trip to Wheel Horse compatibility!

 

Any words of advice @JPWH, @wallfish, @Pullstart, @Achto or anyone else who cares to chip in?!

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Handy Don

[wallfish 16,994]

What about pushing it, as in connected to the trans like a plow frame instead of pulling it?

[SylvanLakeWH 25,547]

12 minutes ago, wallfish said:

What about pushing it, as in connected to the trans like a plow frame instead of pulling it?

Good thinking but... Doesn't pushing eliminate / reduce the drag benefits of grader blade? When i graded gravel with my front blade i got excellent results in reverse and so so results going forward... it wanted to dig in and bite...

 

Just thinking... 

[wallfish 16,994]

9 minutes ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

Doesn't pushing eliminate / reduce the drag benefits of grader blade?

Think most of them push. The newest ones do.  Maybe some "grader blade guys will chime in.

 

[Handy Don 12,216]

22 minutes ago, wallfish said:

pushing it, as in connected to the trans

I have given this some thought -- in part to take the load at the transaxle and not the frame (which has been repaired and reinforced 😉)

But I’m not leaning that way because .....

9 minutes ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

Doesn't pushing eliminate / reduce the drag benefits of grader blade

Yes, it does. Anecdotally. Although, i some cases this might be an advantage?!

In reality, I’ve not heard directly (or seen any posts) from a WH owner who is using a “push” 50 incher about their experience.

[wallfish 16,994]

12 minutes ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

When i graded gravel with my front blade i got excellent results in reverse and so so results going forward... it wanted to dig in and bite...

With the blade tilted ALL the way forward?

[Handy Don 12,216]

I’m looking at angles when either blade encounters a bump or a rock or more load than it can handle. Note that the curve on graders is flatter than on dozer blades but there is still a curved edge at the bottom.

The “drag” blade will rotate its bottom edge up and somewhat rearward, in effect slowing the motion of the tractor

The “push” blade will rotate its bottom edge up and somewhat forward, in effect speeding up the motion of the tractor.

The difference is due to where the pivot is. But how much practical difference? Hmmm. Perhaps building in a bit more “forward tilt” on a pushed blade would offset the perceived “bite in” behavior?

 

It DOES help, I suspect, that either way the blade is between the wheels and not out ahead of the front or behind the rear. This attenuates its vertical motion as the tractor goes over uneven ground.

 

I can’t help but notice that large motor graders use “drag” blades.

 

One thing for sure, a push frame will entail a fair amount of fabrication. 🙃

[JPWH 6,033]

I don't have any experience with the mid mount grader blade. From your pictures I would unbolt that mounting bracket andi build what is needed to fit. But, I also have a large supply of metal so cost would be near zero. Sometimes its easier to fabricate than modify. Just my .02

[SylvanLakeWH 25,547]

2 hours ago, wallfish said:

With the blade tilted ALL the way forward?

Yes. 

[oliver2-44 9,741]

I have a 50” WH push style blade that I have cut and leveled a lot of dirt with using my C160 auto. I do wish it had some side to side tilt, Bu when needed I have compensated by running very low air pressure on one side and a little on the high side on the other side. 

[ebinmaine 67,451]

6 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

50” WH push style blade that I have cut and leveled a lot of dirt with using my C160 AUTO

 

From what I understand HYDRO LIFT is a key. 

It gives the much needed control that a manual lift is lacking.  

 

6 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

I do wish it had some side to side tilt

Agreed.  

Trina uses her Mid Mount Grader Blade on a tractor with no side steps so she can step in one end.  

 

 

8 hours ago, JPWH said:

Sometimes its easier to fabricate than modify. Just my .02

 

@Handy Don I think a very careful consideration of dollar value vs time and energy value is in order for this situation. 

CAN you modify the blade?

Well yes. Of course. 

But to what effort must one go in creating a Wheelhorse implement from a different brand that may be more easily built from the ground up..... 

What brackets must be removed?

What parts can be moved or reused?

How much would it cost to get a piece of the stock used to build just the center section?

 

[oliver2-44 9,741]

2 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

From what I understand HYDRO LIFT is a key. 

It gives the much needed control that a manual lift is lacking.  

I've read where many people prefer a manual lift and say they can control the down pressure better with it using a solid link.

With a little practice I've  learned to constantly tweak the hydro lift. 

Listening to the engine you can hear when your loading up from too much cut.

My hand stays on the hydro lift lever constantly tweaking  up  and down before I spin out.

I run chains and about 100 lb weigh per rear wheel  when pushing dirt. 

I don't have loaded front tires, but they would help with steering.

Soil moisture also helps. Too dry means rock hard, too soft loose traction.

The right soil moisture for each different type soil can help it slice and roll like butter.  

[c-series don 8,690]

When I bought my 50” mid mount blade it was really because I’m a Wheel Horse collector and I didn’t have a grader blade. I was quite impressed with how well it worked when I put it to work on my dirt road though. Also works remarkably well for fine tuning topsoil when putting in a lawn. I have said it before in other grader blade discussions that I wish it had a tilt feature. Yes you can put your foot on one side to help it dig but to me that’s a PITA . 

 For many years I ran a motor grader for a living, many different models and manufacturers. Most of them pull type blades and one push. As far as finish grading with them I can’t really say if one has an advantage over the other? However one reason real graders use pull type is because of the advantage to offset the blade for ditching and sloping banks. Guys on YouTube get pretty crazy with what they can make graders do! 
 Either way, any one of the blades are functional pieces of equipment and also make great display pieces!! Here’s Lucy at work with me a few years ago. RIP Mark Klingler’s C-125 grader. The White/Oliver grader that I donated to the Long Island Antique Power Association And a few other pictures! 

[Handy Don 12,216]

Dang it all. I gotta stop hanging out with this group, it gets me so deep in feature creep and I oughta know better. 🙃

I’d already fabricated a spring-loaded pivot lock that can be operated by a cable to a bicycle brake handle and thought “this is cool” but you guys are really upping the ante now.

 

To start, though, I’ve been aiming at an 854--no hydraulic available--so it’ll be all manual. The blade is quite heavy, though, so that’d be an assist.

 

I, too, have wanted a tilting blade for occasional crowning dirt/gravel roads and for cutting/clearing swales. I’d hoped that by leaving a little slack in the coupling along and using foot pressure on the blade stirrups, it’d be sufficient. Realizing now that might not work all that well for consistency. Probably need something more positive and specific.

 

I’ve also taken a second look at the quick-attach brackets on the 854 (pre-Attach-a-matic) and in my opinion they are not likely to stand up well to the forces that the tractor could put on this blade.

 

That leaves me with looking at a “push” design with a mechanism for ± 5º of tilt as well. Guess I should have known this would get complicated. I’m pining now for the dual remote hydraulics that I added to the camp tractor (Clyde). Anyone have an HY for the 854 they’ll let go of?

[Handy Don 12,216]

Ok, back from the garage measuring things.

Vertical clearance under the transaxle is several inches less than under the frame farther forward. I can see now why the WH 50” grader frame has side rails and a “pan” at the rear and attaches to the blade lower down behind it instead of at the top. It must have less than 5” of actual ground clearance but that may not be critical for grading jobs.

WH has only a single rock shaft for lift (and only about 3.5” of vertical throw) but the tilt feature on motor graders comes from having two hydraulic cylinders (or gear lifts)--one on each side and anchored on the machine’s frame plus a separate linkage for constraining side-to-side motion. The hard-to-duplicate part is the ring that supports the pivoting blade and permits individual downforce to each side. Hmmm.

Maybe a pair of electric actuators and some sort of horizontal stabilizer with a single drag arm going under the front axle and hanging on a front attach-a-matic? Need some math and research.

 

Or MAYBE trying to make a WH be a serious grader is foolish. 

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Handy Don

[c-series don 8,690]

Going in deep Don 🤣👍🏻